0-20W Synthetic, is it safe?

[fourload]

There goes two more speed secrets Dan.LOL... Ive been using the redline oil and chaincase lube for years now.Good thing my friends with Apexes don't read this site much. Its fun to beat them everytime!!!!!!! ROCKRTX- The lightweight gear lube flows like an ATF but seems to protect much better..

 

[ROCKERDAN]

I want to squeeze all the Hp out I can but I dont want to sacrafice my motors protection. The fact that Ulmer himself said 0w20 is ok makes me think it is... However if he has a motor failure he can pull down and rebuild a motor faster than I can make dinner for the family so I think a failure means alot more to me than it does to someone with that kind of knowledge and resources.. So to compromise.. Im gunna look for a good synthetic (amsoil if they have it) 0w30 and run that... thats between the 0w40 I was running but not quite as thin as the 0w20 some run... thats my conclusion...

when you research the ZINC facts...you will find what i found....20 and 30 weight oils fall into automotive ratings(for the most part)

there is same amt of zinc in 20 and 30 weights in mobile 1 oils,this is why a 30 would be no more zinc then 20.

Dan

 

[ROCKERDAN]

There goes two more speed secrets Dan.LOL... Ive been using the redline oil and chaincase lube for years now.Good thing my friends with Apexes don't read this site much. Its fun to beat them everytime!!!!!!! ROCKRTX- The lightweight gear lube flows like an ATF but seems to protect much better..

yep i ran it for 2 seasons.....

i found mobile 1 in their 20 and 30 weights still have some zinc so im switching to them.

i think when allen speaks of a 20 weight oil being fine,he is strictly talking about the viscosity,but the zinc levels are very low on MOST 20 weights oils....however im betting his JOE GIBBS OIL has alot higher zinc levels since its a specialty race type oil,and not general automotive oil,and ofcourse is VERY VERY expensive.

As i said before,i am OCD and had alot of worry about running oils with such low or NO zinc in our solid lifter/cam type yammie motors. But i dont want to run a 40 or 50 weight oil(they have much more zinc) I want to run a higher HP lighter oil(20weight)

only way to get that is to add your own zinc....im sure there might be race type oils out there in 20 weight that have alot of zinc,but those might cost alot more.

Dan

 

[ROCKERDAN]

Here is some Mobile 1 info....


Question:
Presence of Zinc in Engine Oils
Does Mobil Delvac have zinc in the oil? A lot of racers are using Shell to break in their cams in HP engines due to the zinc in the oil. It works the best. I think most oils for non-gas cars have zinc in the oil to help something?
-- Jeff Paquette, Raymond, NH
Answer:
All engine oils have an additive called ZDDP (Zinc DialkylDithioPhosphate) for wear protection. In general, heavy duty engine oils (truck oils like Mobil Delvac) have a higher level of ZDDP. Automotive engine oils generally have a lower level of ZDDP to protect catalytic systems. For details on phosphorous levels in Mobil 1 motor oils, see a related question and its answer.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Question:
Has Zinc Been Removed from Motor Oils?
I am having thrust bearing failure in a 4.6 modified performance engine. This is a street/strip engine. Many of my friends are having the same problem. I think it is the result of the removal of zinc from the oil. I was told by two separate racing engine builders that the EPA ordered the removal of the zinc from over-the-counter motor oil. I use Mobil 1 5W-20. Is this true and do you think a zinc additive might help?
-- Randy Lovejoy, Americas, GA
Answer:
The active ingredient that you are talking about is phosphorus which is added thru a component called ZDDP. For products that meet the new ILSAC GF-4 specification the phosphorus levels for the oil must be less than 800 ppm phosphorus. The ILSAC level for phosphorus has been reduced to protect the catalytic converter and other emission protection equipment. The engine manufacturers are confident that this level of phosphorus will protect both new and older engines. However, there are Mobil 1 products which have a higher level of phosphorus (phos) and can be used in engines in racing or high performance applications; see the attached table.


check out the table attached below,you can see the zinc levels in the mobile 1 oils....

Dan

 

[fourload]

Dan, Correct me if I am wrong? I have read numerous times on www.bobistheoilguy.com that redline street oil has high levels of moly,zinc and other additives that make them great for our solid lifter engines. Check out some of the oil UOAs in the forum section with redline oil and you will see what I mean.

 

[ROCKERDAN]

Dan, Correct me if I am wrong? I have read numerous times on www.bobistheoilguy.com that redline street oil has high levels of moly,zinc and other additives that make them great for our solid lifter engines. Check out some of the oil UOAs in the forum section with redline oil and you will see what I mean.

this is what i thought,but several charts and tables i came across had redline with 0 zinc which is why i was worried...now i havent seen this site you mentioned so im gonna look around..

this oil research is a pain in #*$&@,seem you get different answers from every source....im beginning to think any oil will be fine,and maybe im overthinking it too much!..frustrating.

Dan

 

[ROCKERDAN]

the problem i keep seeing is strictly with the lighter 20 weight oils......i cannot see any of them with decent amts of zinc in them....still havent seen anything on REDLINE saying their 20 has higher zinc levels...

its only always the 40 to 50 weights that have higher levels,but i want to run thinner oil for HP....

ill keep searching...

Dan

 

[ROCKERDAN]

 

[apltx08]

I'd be careful using a lighter weight oil, guys like ULMER use on radar runs were the sled runs a 600' stretch or so then shuts it down, these guys run for SHORT period of time compared to sledders like myself and others that will run for hours on end and thats is where you want PROTECTION meaning a higher grade oil on the last number like 0W-"30" or "40" the last number is when your MOTOR is at its full operating TEMPATURE and thats when you need the protection, hot oil turns to water like conditions and in these high reving motors you need the proper grade or else on the long term you could be in for trouble, why did YAM go full SYN 0W-40...you would of touhgt 0W-"20" to get the extra performance...but they know that theirs to many VARIANCES in operating conditions and chose to be on the safe side and prefer to have reliability...for HIGH milage long haul riders I don't reccomend anything lower grade than 0W-"30" my .02

 

[fourload]

Check out that website I mentioned. It is great and will really make your head spin? I even have noticed a few people from here on that site.

 

[ROCKERDAN]

OK......so far this is the first 20weight oil I have found that specifically says it has more zinc....take alook.
http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/rd20.aspx

MAXIMUM DURABILITY, MAXIMUM WEAR PROTECTION
AMSOIL Dominator Synthetic Racing Oil features an additive package heavily fortified with zinc and phosphorus for superior long-term wear protection. Designed for maximum durability, it ensures critical engine components are protected for the duration of the race. Dominator Synthetic 5W-20 Racing Oil’s superior additive technology provides unmatched durability in extreme conditions. In addition, its light viscosity makes it ideal for high-performance tuner cars and sub-compact vehicles.

 

[Super Sled]

Amsoil's the only thing I use. I use 0w40 though. But for riding all day hammering the throttle, I wouldn't use any thing lighter weight.....

Mike

 

[ROCKERDAN]

Amsoil's the only thing I use. I use 0w40 though. But for riding all day hammering the throttle, I wouldn't use any thing lighter weight.....

Mike

trying to keep this thead to the 20 weight subject,since there are a zillion oil threads on what people prefer....lol

the idea with this thead is to find a light oil to gain those extra 3-4HP and maybe 1mph on radar....and still protect your engine with zinc.

ANY 40 or higher viscosity oil already contains MORE ZINC(at least everyone ive researched,synth or dyno)

its when you get to 20 and 30 weight which they consider AUTOMOTIVE oils that the EPA has made the levels be reduced.

so to get the zinc at lower viscositys we need to get into RACE oils,which dont need to fit the criteria of auto oils set by EPA
Dan

 

[ROCKRTX]

I use 0w-20 amsoil this year for a try But i don't know how much zinc it contain.

Edit: i found this here for that oil http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ub ... er=1349314

0w-20
phophorous 677
Zinc 745

Read on a site that you want 1200 ppm of both in oil for flat tapped.

Rockerdan does ZDDP have a chart for how much to ad for PPM target?
I have read that too much is bad for iron too.

 

[ROCKRTX]

Here another link read first post at bottom is valvoline tech reply.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ub ... er=1271805

Tech guy reply that normal flat tappet engine only require 800 ppm of zinc 1200 -1300 ppm for race engine with higher lift cam.

Amsoils 0w-20 got about 800 ppm of zinc so i think it may be enough for 3 month of ridding on stock apex engine.

Rock