06 Apex starts intermittently

[polaris87]

My buddy has a 06 Apex GT and has no trouble with it until now. We went for a short ride and he shut it off. Went to start it and it turned over but wouldn't start. It worked fine while driving it and showed no signs of loosing power, missing nothing. He let it sit for a bit and tried again..Same thing, turn over great but would poof and pook out the exhaust. And the stink coming from the exhaust...smelled like 5 year old fuel...

He finally got mad enough that he held the starter on for 30 seconds...and vrooom it started. He took off with it and it worked fine. No missing, lack of power nothing! Brought it back to us and shut it off to see if it would start...no way! Had to whirl it over for another 30 seconds before it started. This time he drove it home with out shutting it off. Once in the driveway he shut it off and it started right away. Again and again it started like it should.

Last night he tried to go for a ride and it wouldnt start. Played with the harness on the left frame rail and it fired right up. Coincidence?

Anyone had a simular problem? Plugs? We took them out last night and they fire on another engine...could test them on the apex because we had to near strip the sled to change the plugs....

This sled also has a power comander and when you turn the key on, the light on the power comander dances and stops on lean...Is this where this light is suppose to be? He bought the sled with all this aftermarket crap on it and we're not sure how to run it and just by looking...theres not even a map from Dynojet for an Apex.....

Anyway, thanks everyone! Kind of a novel...but I'll try to answer any questions you guys have as well...

 

[wcfpusher]

it could be a pain to isolate the loss..either spark or fuel. keeping the sled stripped and during long crank you could spray fuel into the throttle body see if it helps...or ck for spark with a spark tester...purchase this from your local parts store. Make sure the throttle TORS is not activating! there should be slack in the throttle cable.

 

[FLYBYU]

Contact Ulmer racing on here for your Power commander needs. Check ground wires on the frame for corrosion

 

[yamahahaapex]

watch that power commander, its usually mounted on right side and tends to get wet from snow on it if the owner does not seal it, I sealed mine and I still had problems, same thing as you. Ran fine but when it was shut off it wouldnt start. I bypassed the box to get me home, dried it out and hid it better in the sled. It would crasnk and crank but no fire until I plugged the mounts in like stock. Once again this is the exact problem I had until I moved the box away from direct contact in the snow and sealed it even better.

 

[yamahahaapex]

Ulmer can provide you with some maps, he did for mine. Since ive moved the box ive never had that problem again.

 

[polaris87]

ok thanks alot! He always keeps the sled in a heated garage and does keep care of it. The snow was wet and someone infront of him spun and filled the vent below where the power commander is mounted full of mud and snow. Think the power comander is doing it?

If we unhook the comander and plug the stock harness back in, will it hurt the engine? The engine has a White Knuckle exhaust...I imagine it wont hurt to let it idle...

We'll also check the TORS...where is this at? Underneith the hood of this thing I feel like singing Guns N roses..Welcome to the Jungle! lolll

We'll try messing with the power comander first.

 

[yamahahaapex]

Try the commander, hooking it back up to stock wont hurt it. Simply unplug the harness from the commander and plug in other end back to the harness thus going back to stock. Take the box off, put it in rice or use a hair dryer for a day. I had my attak straightpiped and had to unplug this to drive back 300kms. Unplugging it will just return your mapping to stock, you may run a tad lean.

 

[yamahahaapex]

btw the light on the commander should go all the way up and back down when key is flipped forward, thats standard.

 

[polaris87]

ok thanks! Tonight we unplugged the power commander and left the dynojet ignition module plugged in. Now when you turn the key on, code 12 comes up which is a crankshaft postion sensor... I've read threads about R1's having trouble with code 12 with the dyno jet power commander. So obviously the power commander hooks into the crank sensor. We didn't have this code last night...

We didn't whirl it over for any length of time though and guys have said that the code will go away when it starts.

We're lost! Theres tooo many sensors, relays, modules, and blahhh. and everything leads to something else...

Thanks a lot for any more suggestions! You have really been a huge help!

 

[gun nut]

mod

Most of you will learn as I did, after some stupid mods. KEEP IT STOCK.

13,500 trouble free miles except for the donuts, and pipes. Drove it home every time.

 

[yamahahaapex]

Unfortunately my instructions are gone along with the sled. Did you hook it back up to stock? The light on the ign mod should be red if so. See what happens when the box dries out but I cannot verify that its hooked up to that sensor, im pretty sure its not but i cant say for sure. Its pretty simple to wire one in so long as the instructions are there lol. Maybe Ulmer at Ulmer racing has instructions, give him a shout im sure for a nominal fee it would give you peace of mind

 

[polaris87]

ok cool. We'll try plugging the power commander back in and see if code 12 goes away. If it does, then I guess the commander has something to do with the crank sensor. Or the wires leading to the sensor...or something.. Sounds like this is the problem since if this sensor messes up it shuts off the injectors and ignition...

Or, the ignition module is still plugged in and thats causing a open circuit between the power commander and it or the sensor...

I don't know! Theres sooo many things! We'll keep plugging away at it and i'm sure we'll figure something out! I'll let you know if we have any progress.

 

[polaris87]

He finally tried everything we could think of and nothing seemed to work. He took it to a dealer for them to have a look. First thing they replaced was the crank sensor (he waited 3 days for the part) and it didn't fix anything. I guess they put it all back together before they realized it still didn't start and then tested the stator which they said is shot. They wanted to charge him to take back apart and put a stator on. Thats when he decided to get it out of there and do it himself. He already had that side of the motor off and looked at everything...couldnt find anything wrong. Thats why he took it to a dealer where they're suppose to know whats up...Some of these dealers are...well..not too great...I havn't found a good one yet..Polaris, arctic cat, yamaha, they all seem the same in my area...Ignorant and just want your $$...

Anyway, I do have a few questions before we play Yamaha Technicians ourselves hahah!

When he took the case off the engine with the stator inside, there was a teaspoon of oil...normal? Also he said he could see the connecting rod...I found this to be reeeaaly strange hahaha but maybe that's the way its designed? Normal?

Also, are there any ohm numbers we could test the stator for our selves?

Thanks alot! I have to say this site is a lot more helpful then the idiots at the shop...

 

[rc2ubro]

You should download the manual. on apex general talk page. the stickies at top, go to freq. asked questions, theres a link for 2007 apex manual, but it actually covers rx-1 up to 2008 apex/attack.

 

[polaris87]

I didn't even know that was there! Thanks! However, I couldn't get it to download...Cant find the webpage...mhmm