apexrtxmaniac
Pro
Here is why I dropped the big cash for my hygear setup:heelingcowboy1 said:
I can second that the hygear setup is well worth the extra money. I had the same work as heelingcowboy1 done to my sled except that I had a resi with a compression adjuster added to the center shock (front rear suspension shock) as well. The beauty of this setup is two fold: 1) you can set it up for a WIDE range of conditions and riding styles (ex soft for long flat groomed rides vs stiff enough to jump 4-5' in the air without bottoming), and 2) THIS SETUP DOES NOT FADE, the braided hyflo hoses that hygear uses has an inner diameter that is at least 3-4x that of a stock rubber hose, and the resi uses an uncommon bladder system.
The way that the bladder system works is this; quality (IFP) shocks or resi's have the shock oil on one side (doing the work of the dampening) and a floating piston with nitrogen on the other side (this allows the oil to be pressurized via adding nitrogen, thus raising the boiling point of the oil). This design is far better than a shock that is straight oil and is common in sleds. The problem with this design is that though it is fade resistant as the seal wares and the oil getts hot from incessant ditch banging the oil can leak past the floating piston and mix with the nitrogen and visa versa. Over time the oil and nitrogen mix and this makes the valving go way off. This will be gradual but eventually the shock will bottom easily, and rebound fast...this is when you know it is rebuild time or for a low end shock, throw away time. What Hygear uses is a bladder system. In a bladder system there is a rubber bladder in the resi instead of the piston that separates the oil and nitrogen. In this system it doesn't matter how much abuse the shocks have taken, the nitrogen and oil simply cannot mix. With hygear's setup the shocks will function the same as the day you installed them with thousands of hard miles on them until the point at which they start leaking oil out of the o-rings on the shaft. The combination of this blader system and the hyflo hoses keep the shocks from overheating or deteriorating in ride quality over time. I have blown down miles of 2.5-3' roller moguls without noticing fade, pulled over and felt the shocks only to find them barely warm enough to melt the snow off of them. The stock system would be hot and long faded at that point.
To top off the hardware, hygear spends hours of R&D developing their valve stacks. They buy sleds and ride tug hill in the winter (legendary on the east cost for its bumps) and ride sleds on their mulch bump/jump course outside in the summer. They do this and mess around with the products until they are happy with what they are selling. This way you are not their guinnie pig.
If you only want the revalve of the rear shocks done they can do that to the tune of around $200-very competitive. The problem is that this would be prone to fade and would deteriorate in ride quality over time. I have read of people who have gone this route (in general, not hygear specifically) that have blown their shocks very quickly because the aggressive new valving would overheat the oil due to restrictive hoses, lack of a center shock resi etc.
Could I have gone with a used zx2 for what I paid? YES. The reason that I did not go that route is that I did not want to raise the ride height of the sled. Many aftermarket suspensions will raise the ride height making it difficult to get through corners fast and flat. The hygear setup actually lowered the ride height of the front of the skid through the dual rate twisted spring on the center shock. By running this setup it adds pressure to the skis without sacrificing bump capability. More weight on the skis ensures that I can run a higher pressure in the front shocks that can take the bumps while keeping the a-arms level (best rule of thumb for a flat cornering apex).
The other big bonus with hygear is that they will revalve the shocks stiffer or softer if they don't hit it exactly to your liking as many times as you want FOR FREE.
Pick any route you would like. I am not saying that hygear is the only shop working with sophisticated hardware updates. However from everything I read they seemed to do the best work. I plan on keeping this sled for a long time and only wanted to invest the initial capital once. Therefore I chose to go with the top shelf HyGear setup in the rear suspension. I am thrilled with how it turned out.
So far I am happy with how the front floats are handling in their stock form after dialing in the rear. However as a perfectionist I am sure that I will do something to them eventually.
Hope this helps differente between options and clarify what your money gets you. If you have any questions let me know.
race24x
TY 4 Stroke Master
How much did you have to spend for the Hygear option. I am lookinbg at a used mono ER for my sled eventually upgrading to the Ohlins and revalving that, but after wasting 350 - 400 on the setup I have I hate to spend any more money on it at all. There is nothing worse than a buddy having to swap sleds with you because yours is so bad you cant get over 15 MPH on it without it smashing your feet off the floor boards and crushing your spine
apexrtxmaniac
Pro
That is a tough spot you are in, have you called Bruce? Maybe it is re-valved a bit stiff for your riding style.
I spent around $900, admittedly, it is a large initial investment. They also offer one moddel down from the package I got. It gives you the same valving, a hyflo hose, the center shock dual rate spring and a resi for the center shock for $670. They have a full breakdown on their website (these are rear only prices). I would call ross and talk to him about what your riding style is and what you are thinking about doing. He does not try to up sell you. I only got the "trail pro" package because I am a very agressive rider that likes to stand and starts to get a permagrin when the bumps get huge. If you are making this kind of investment it might be worth talking to carver and pioneer.
When I was researching this before I did it to my sled I found this: Everyone loved hygear's work but admitted that the investment was a bit high if you go beyond the basic packages. Everyone who got work done by carver seemed to be very pleased. Most who got work done by pioneer were also very pleased however there were a couple of people who had their shocks blow soon after the re-valve. I also didn't like the larger sway bar idea to solve the handling vs the dual rate center spring of hygear. A thick sway-bar will reduce body roll on flat trails but it will make the sled pitch side to side on uneven moguls because it limits the independent characteristic of the suspension. However I think that yamaha's initial valving was bad enough that all of the shock shops are producing re-valves that everyone loves. It would be interesting to do a back to back test of sleds done up by different shops.
Most of this section of this post is only based off of what I have read:
As far as the mono swap goes-the mono is a whole different animal. It tends to absorb the bump and provide a dead but comfortable feel for seated riding. This is great on 1' stutter bumps however when it gets rough and the mono cant keep up it bottoms out hard. If you stand with the mono it still bottoms and does not have the poppy, playful feel over moguls-just absorbs them until bottom. When the proactive is re-valved well it can perform well in the seated position over the 1-1.5' chop. However it will never have the cushy couch ride of the mono. The kicker is that when it gets really bad you can just stand and give it more popping off of moguls and if it is setup properly it won't bottom. I am not too read on how a well valved mono performs however from what I recall it is slightly less cushy than stock but more bottom out resistant. They are two completely different animals. Think of it as the mono is a rolls royce-smooth but agressive handling suffers. The proactive is more of a lambo-slightly harsher but is built to be driven aggressively and loves it. If I lived in canada on trails that are always very well maintained and I always remained seated I would go with a mono skid. Otherwise I would keep the proactive imho. However I really only know a few things that I have read about the mono. I have 0 personal experience in that dept.
In the mean time when you are riding on the valving you have I would set the sled up like this: Put the center shock's (front shock on the rear suspension) spring tension on the minimum setting. Make sure that the limiter has a little slack in it. Adjust the rear springs to the point that the rear barely sags under your weight. Adjust the transfer to around 2 lines from maximum (less transfer forces both shocks to work together and provides good weight on the skis for cornering). Then adjust the air pressure in the floats until the front a-arms are sitting at approximately level with the ground. Ride it and adjust the compression clicker until you find the sweet spot. If you do that it should improve your ride with the stock valving. Unfortunately by not running too much transfer you lose hookup however with suspension everything is a give and take and you need to find the right compromise. More transfer makes the suspension harsher, easier to bottom, and hurts corner handling.
I spent around $900, admittedly, it is a large initial investment. They also offer one moddel down from the package I got. It gives you the same valving, a hyflo hose, the center shock dual rate spring and a resi for the center shock for $670. They have a full breakdown on their website (these are rear only prices). I would call ross and talk to him about what your riding style is and what you are thinking about doing. He does not try to up sell you. I only got the "trail pro" package because I am a very agressive rider that likes to stand and starts to get a permagrin when the bumps get huge. If you are making this kind of investment it might be worth talking to carver and pioneer.
When I was researching this before I did it to my sled I found this: Everyone loved hygear's work but admitted that the investment was a bit high if you go beyond the basic packages. Everyone who got work done by carver seemed to be very pleased. Most who got work done by pioneer were also very pleased however there were a couple of people who had their shocks blow soon after the re-valve. I also didn't like the larger sway bar idea to solve the handling vs the dual rate center spring of hygear. A thick sway-bar will reduce body roll on flat trails but it will make the sled pitch side to side on uneven moguls because it limits the independent characteristic of the suspension. However I think that yamaha's initial valving was bad enough that all of the shock shops are producing re-valves that everyone loves. It would be interesting to do a back to back test of sleds done up by different shops.
Most of this section of this post is only based off of what I have read:
As far as the mono swap goes-the mono is a whole different animal. It tends to absorb the bump and provide a dead but comfortable feel for seated riding. This is great on 1' stutter bumps however when it gets rough and the mono cant keep up it bottoms out hard. If you stand with the mono it still bottoms and does not have the poppy, playful feel over moguls-just absorbs them until bottom. When the proactive is re-valved well it can perform well in the seated position over the 1-1.5' chop. However it will never have the cushy couch ride of the mono. The kicker is that when it gets really bad you can just stand and give it more popping off of moguls and if it is setup properly it won't bottom. I am not too read on how a well valved mono performs however from what I recall it is slightly less cushy than stock but more bottom out resistant. They are two completely different animals. Think of it as the mono is a rolls royce-smooth but agressive handling suffers. The proactive is more of a lambo-slightly harsher but is built to be driven aggressively and loves it. If I lived in canada on trails that are always very well maintained and I always remained seated I would go with a mono skid. Otherwise I would keep the proactive imho. However I really only know a few things that I have read about the mono. I have 0 personal experience in that dept.
In the mean time when you are riding on the valving you have I would set the sled up like this: Put the center shock's (front shock on the rear suspension) spring tension on the minimum setting. Make sure that the limiter has a little slack in it. Adjust the rear springs to the point that the rear barely sags under your weight. Adjust the transfer to around 2 lines from maximum (less transfer forces both shocks to work together and provides good weight on the skis for cornering). Then adjust the air pressure in the floats until the front a-arms are sitting at approximately level with the ground. Ride it and adjust the compression clicker until you find the sweet spot. If you do that it should improve your ride with the stock valving. Unfortunately by not running too much transfer you lose hookup however with suspension everything is a give and take and you need to find the right compromise. More transfer makes the suspension harsher, easier to bottom, and hurts corner handling.
granto211
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
Good read , thank you for posting. I have the mono and did some reading up on it today.. I can relate to the botteming out but its never from jumbing its from the second bump after the initial bumb if u know what i mean. It only does it somtimes but like i said i can put it through the air and land no prob its just when you go over a drivway and theres a big pump after. Im hoping that revalvalve or new spring will fix this but will wait till summer cause dont want the down time. When im on a smooth or groomed trail i loosen it up on the dial and its beautifull. Sorry to hijack
granto211
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
Must add that im very impressed with my fox float shocks!!
apexrtxmaniac
Pro
Thanks!
It seems like from what I've read you should be able to sort that out very easily.
It seems like from what I've read you should be able to sort that out very easily.
Ak Yammy
Expert
It sounds like you have a dead shock if you are bottoming out that easy. I just did the Pioneer re-valve and have not had any excessive bottoming since.race24x said:
Irv
TY 4 Stroke God
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sherlock29 said:
Thanks for the info Sherlock, I am definitely going to check him out.
race24x
TY 4 Stroke Master
Its not bottoming I am not sure if it is just to stiff or if the suspension is packing up in and not reacting fast enough. It is just so rough you cant stand it and not much better than stock unless you hit a jump and come off the ground then it lands nice.
ahicks
TY 4 Stroke Master
race24x said:
You're talking about a shock valving issue here. Or more directly, the POS Yammi calibration supplied as OEM. It's very easy to improve on it...
apexrtxmaniac
Pro
If you look on the previous page race24x said that he already had Pioneer re-valve his skid.ahicks said:
Liquid Blue
Extreme
Per last post. Revalved, the RTX is as good to even better than the mono in the rough. Mine was revalved by Bruce Schrader at Pioneer Perf. with the 13mm swaybar. I run 68lbs in the floats and set my transfer rods at 25-30mm with me on the machine with riding gear. Set the torsion springs also per you weight. Ride now is very impressive in both stutters and larger moguls.
race24x
TY 4 Stroke Master
Mine was revalved by Bruce as well. Sucks in the stutters and not great in 1 footers if the sled comes off the ground it doeshit bigbumps pretty well. Other than that it sucks
apexrtxmaniac
Pro
It really sounds to me like it is valved it too stiff for your riding style/area. Is it still too harsh when you loosten up the clicker on the rear shock? How much transfer are you running?
race24x
TY 4 Stroke Master
2 lines from max transfer. and I have tried all the settings moved the spring on the front shock to almost loose etc
