thunder lips
Extreme
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I just purchased a 2005 RX-1. I was a long time Cat man and before I odered the RX-1, I drove a 2003 F7. If I leave my RX-1 stock, will I be able to run with my friends 2003 800 REV? I am new to the site and would like to hear your input. Thanx
Swiss Sledder
TY 4 Stroke God
Welcome Thunder. Greenmachine would be a good person to get advice on running against F7's because he owns Cat and Yamaha, and doesn't give a damn about the brand name. So his feedback is honest. Looking back through the posts, it is pretty unanimous that everyone is beating the Rev 800 in races. F7's are different (stock vs. stock). If you want to mod your sled, people will probably tell you to get the ECP kit.
Good link to Cat people that switched to Yamaha (posts are pretty funny too!)
http://www.rx1.info/viewtopic.php?t=4247
Link on racing Rev 600 and 800
http://www.rx1.info/viewtopic.php?t=4254
Link on racing against F7
http://www.rx1.info/viewtopic.php?t=4305
Good link to ECP kit
http://www.rx1.info/viewtopic.php?t=4254
Good link to Cat people that switched to Yamaha (posts are pretty funny too!)
http://www.rx1.info/viewtopic.php?t=4247
Link on racing Rev 600 and 800
http://www.rx1.info/viewtopic.php?t=4254
Link on racing against F7
http://www.rx1.info/viewtopic.php?t=4305
Good link to ECP kit
http://www.rx1.info/viewtopic.php?t=4254
Snorover
Expert
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THUNDER,
You should be aware that it takes some miles on the rx-1 before its broke -in and then you will be able to get max out of it. I would say it would take 1000 to 2000 miles to brake it in, at least it seemed that way with mine.
You should be aware that it takes some miles on the rx-1 before its broke -in and then you will be able to get max out of it. I would say it would take 1000 to 2000 miles to brake it in, at least it seemed that way with mine.
LazyBastard
TY 4 Stroke God
Yeah, don't race anyone until you've got 1500+ miles on it, otherwise you'll get embarassed.
I don't believe in the ECP kit, clutching is more important. Talk to Matt - www.thespeedshop1.com
I don't believe in the ECP kit, clutching is more important. Talk to Matt - www.thespeedshop1.com
Mighty
TY 4 Stroke God
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23 Sidewinder SRX
LazyBastard said:
LazyBastard
TY 4 Stroke God
It doesn't generate any more horsepower at peak, so if its benefiting you, its off peak, which means that your clutching needs improvement.
Mighty
TY 4 Stroke God
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23 Sidewinder SRX
It does pickup a few ponies up top, not as many as between 5,500-6,500 where it picks up almost 20! I don't know about you Cliffy (LB), but i'm not constantly running at 10K :lol:
LazyBastard
TY 4 Stroke God
If you're running at WOT, it should be spinning 10200-10300 for stock, or 10700 with ECP. If you're running less than 10k, then you're at less than WOT, which means that you're restricting the airflow with the throttle gate, the ECP kit may be letting more air in, buy that doesn't matter since YOU aren't. You see?
If you've got your machine set to hit 9300 and climb, then for sure the ECP kit will help, but not as much as setting your clutching to smack up to 10300 and hold.
If you've got your machine set to hit 9300 and climb, then for sure the ECP kit will help, but not as much as setting your clutching to smack up to 10300 and hold.
Mighty
TY 4 Stroke God
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23 Sidewinder SRX
I must be a dumb #*$&@ cause I don't follow you LB. Let me put it this way; I had the kit on and removed it because I was gonna sell the sled. I decided to keep the sled and rode it with the stock airbox back on and really missed the midrange punch. Re-installed it and the punch came back. Could I have obtained that punch by clutching alone-Probably, but like I said, I don't generally run those R's. So the kit for me is perfect. It makes the power where I run the engine. I don't want the engine reving at 10K all day when I can get the same results with much lower rpms's.
LazyBastard
TY 4 Stroke God
I don't run 10k all day long either, but I've got the punch 'cause when I want the punch, I give it throttle and the rpm's jump to peak. I cruise at 6k.
Mighty
TY 4 Stroke God
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23 Sidewinder SRX
6k is perfect for the kit. Just try it LB.
Mighty I feel the same. It has more instant punch. I jump 1 sled length against Boss Hog who is set up exactly like mine except the filter kit. But I stay there. We are simular in weight. Mine seems a lot more responsive instantly. Without the kit he would pull me slightly.
One negative item that might be the reason I may not put it on my 05. The filters frost up in real clold weather blocking about half of the filter surface. I now put a boot over the filters at night to hold down the frost build up.
One negative item that might be the reason I may not put it on my 05. The filters frost up in real clold weather blocking about half of the filter surface. I now put a boot over the filters at night to hold down the frost build up.
LazyBastard
TY 4 Stroke God
MightyWarrior said:
6k is perfect without the kit. And I can guarantee that with *equivalent* clutching, whether it be stock or weird, that at 6k, a sled with the kit will have exactly the same volume of air flowing into the motor as a sled without - because on both, the main airflow restriction will be the throttle gate. The only time the throttle gate isn't the main restriction is at WOT, where if you're clutched right, you're at peak anyways.
See, when you're running at less than WOT, you're not trying to get more air into the engine, you're trying to balance it at a particular power level by restricting the air.
QCRider
TY 4 Stroke Master
[quote="LazyBastarda sled with the kit will have exactly the same volume of air flowing into the motor as a sled without[/quote]
LB, you are exactly right. In fact even if you had to draw all that air in through a 2" tube 100 feet long your statement would still be true. The point is that it is easier to draw that air into the engine with the ECP kit. You waste less power using the engine to suck the air in since the air is sucked in more easily.
LB, you are exactly right. In fact even if you had to draw all that air in through a 2" tube 100 feet long your statement would still be true. The point is that it is easier to draw that air into the engine with the ECP kit. You waste less power using the engine to suck the air in since the air is sucked in more easily.
LazyBastard
TY 4 Stroke God
You're not quite catching what I'm meaning.
What takes more sucking:
Throttle gates 1/2 way open through 100' hose,
or throttle gates 1/4 way open through ECP kit?
Now lets assume that we've balanced that 100' hose so that the two situations above take exactly the same amount of sucking.
What will make more power or more rpm? Neither. Since it takes the same amount of sucking, they will be spot on. Yes, the 100' hose will be running with the throttle gates more open, but thats really not relevant since we're not trying to make peak power.
Now what we know is this; with throttle gates fully open, the transmission will snap to peak, AND, according to DYNO, the peak HP isn't significantly different, so really what the ECP kit is doing is changing the rate that the engine responds to throttle position - ie you need to squeeze the throttle less to achieve the same effect at BELOW peak. By rate, I do NOT mean TIME. Attached is a picture to illustrate.
Notice the blue line is the stock power to throttle position curve - nice and linear, so if you want 50% power, squeeze the throttle lever HALF way to the bar. The red curve is what you get with an ECP kit - you want 50% power, squeeze the lever, uhm, a *bit*. Sure would make it *seem* that power is coming on sooner - when in fact it isn't.
Also notice the green line - for *all* throttle positions, the other intake system can achieve the *same* power level, just at a different THROTTLE position.
In *all* cases, the same power level is achieved with the same amount of airflow resistance, the airflow resistance = the sum of the resistances of the throttle gate and the intake system. The fact is that at WOT (when the engine is running as hard as it can), the difference between the resistance of the stock intake and the ECP kit is negligible - the main resistance is the amount of air that can be sucked past the VALVES. Port that head and it might make more power.
ECP kit only alters the relationship between throttle position and power. It doesn't actually make any more power.
The DYNO shows that the kit makes more power down low. This is very misleading. When you are down low, you are at low throttle position, adding back the resistance that the ECP kit removed. The DYNO only shows the effects at WOT.
What takes more sucking:
Throttle gates 1/2 way open through 100' hose,
or throttle gates 1/4 way open through ECP kit?
Now lets assume that we've balanced that 100' hose so that the two situations above take exactly the same amount of sucking.
What will make more power or more rpm? Neither. Since it takes the same amount of sucking, they will be spot on. Yes, the 100' hose will be running with the throttle gates more open, but thats really not relevant since we're not trying to make peak power.
Now what we know is this; with throttle gates fully open, the transmission will snap to peak, AND, according to DYNO, the peak HP isn't significantly different, so really what the ECP kit is doing is changing the rate that the engine responds to throttle position - ie you need to squeeze the throttle less to achieve the same effect at BELOW peak. By rate, I do NOT mean TIME. Attached is a picture to illustrate.
Notice the blue line is the stock power to throttle position curve - nice and linear, so if you want 50% power, squeeze the throttle lever HALF way to the bar. The red curve is what you get with an ECP kit - you want 50% power, squeeze the lever, uhm, a *bit*. Sure would make it *seem* that power is coming on sooner - when in fact it isn't.
Also notice the green line - for *all* throttle positions, the other intake system can achieve the *same* power level, just at a different THROTTLE position.
In *all* cases, the same power level is achieved with the same amount of airflow resistance, the airflow resistance = the sum of the resistances of the throttle gate and the intake system. The fact is that at WOT (when the engine is running as hard as it can), the difference between the resistance of the stock intake and the ECP kit is negligible - the main resistance is the amount of air that can be sucked past the VALVES. Port that head and it might make more power.
ECP kit only alters the relationship between throttle position and power. It doesn't actually make any more power.
The DYNO shows that the kit makes more power down low. This is very misleading. When you are down low, you are at low throttle position, adding back the resistance that the ECP kit removed. The DYNO only shows the effects at WOT.
