2012 xtx apex -30 cold start problems solved...??

[ruso]

I'm a little new to the Yamaha line ...am extremely happy with my xtx apex ...a total different breed ....when I first got It home ran It out the back stubble" the north forty" was very impressed with the torque and eps is pretty nice I must say .. at any rate parked it in barn with others, went out next morning , very cold night -30 celcius..I was curious to see how she starts in the cold ..4 tries with prime up for each run last two times fires wont pick up , then when dies hearing a series of clicks as winds down like a relay opening and closing quickly, went and got charger , turning a little slower put it on 2 amps and left it for the night ...next morn. I go to sled charger light says still charching ...I look under cover and ign was left on ...damn...slowly I turn off key unplug charger, turn on key, does sweep , pumps up rail, two cranks and fires right up...just as cold out maybe colder...heated throttle bodies stayed on all night maybe ...?? any input and how to really cold start one of these ...never had this issue before ..old days choke ... pull cord ..help its cold here...lol.
ps great forum very informative thanks
David

 

[slimjim2525]

Here's what I do. Cycle the fuel pump 4 times and try to start. If it doesn't start, then cycle the the pump 2 more times, but this time hold the throttle open maybe 1/4 and start again. It worked for me every time, never worried that I was gonna flood the engine, and it never did. Some people are nervous to give a 4 stroke a little gas, but having raced 4 stroke motocross bike for a while, when they are cold, they will start much easier with a little gas. However when they are warmed up don't touch the gas to start. Try this and report back.

 

[RtxViper]

After u prime the pump turn key to start and hold it for an extra second or two and that will keep it running had the same problem with mine and that seemed to work every time after it. I know bought a pcv from lumber racing and that made it quite a bit better also it fires and picks up right away no stumble

 

[ruso]

Will definetly try your rail pump up procedure Slimjim even the 1/4 throttle technique, thanks in advance ...Viper i understand the concept you are trying to explain...i think.. you say i should continue to let it turn over even as it is firing correct? will try but a little hard on starter no?? just sayin..
Was thinkin of some sort of a permanent teflon element material that i could apply to the surface of the oil resevoir .. my question is how hot does that resvoir get during operation temp and would it melt teflon ?? or does anyone have any other oil heating tricks that don't involve inline..? thanks in advance.
Its beautiful here this morning she'll fire right up, trails were done yesterday lots of snow here in northern manitoba . Was wondering about going to a power commander as i have one on my hog..it really woke it up , better fuel mileage as well .. was wonder if you guys are getting a few extra miles per tank with pcv on board??
Thanks in advance this place is a Plethra ....:0)... read read read ...suspension and steering next .. Love my apex xtx its new ...its new... and we got snow ...we got snow "aint it grand"..
Merry Merry to all ....

 

[ViperTurboPete]

I don't care how cold it is outside when I need to start my 4strokes. I store my sleds outside and have no electricity at the camp for battery chargers, blockheaters, blowdriers or whatever. If my sleds don't turn over, I get some hot water and pour it on the cylinder head. My carbed RXm has had a hard time in -35 to -40C and the battery is the limiting factor. Pour a little bit of hot water on it and it turns over and fires up like it is warm outside. My Nytro usually starts due to efi. At least I don't need to worry about not getting the sleds to start the next day or days after using the hot water trick.

 

[ruso]

Your kidding me right rx1pete....its new man..not gonna pour water all over it ..just sayin...umm you know just a thought if you could heat that oil resevoir with say some sort of a 12 volt battery blanket kind of an idea..and say a lithium ion polymer type three cell 230 dc amp battery pack rated say at 10ah fits in pocket , hook it up to say 120 watt 12 volt blanket , apply to tank wait for cell to deplete. remove heated cover, prime up rail a coupla times , if not on first crankover session , she'll go if that oil gets moving with each crankover heat will transfer its energy just enough to maybe pull if off , maybe take two cells and double down on heating cycle ...only reason this is an issue is it will go to some extreme lows here ,like if your not plugged in god wouldn't make your car , truck go ..nevermind four stroke apex..sorry needs external heat when it dips to minus 40 at night and its the same c or f even shedded wont go ...will figure it out , easy with 120 volt power but let see in the morning at the hotel minus 38 celcius ..and yes we ride in that...all the time it warms up later in the day but when your on a schedule you go.... just wondering if i dumped two lipo's of heat into that resevoir "lipo lithium ion polymer" would it be just enough heat...nuf said will get back to you ...pat no 555d5e5d not "laughin"
Again thanks for any input just love this thing as i say just got back from about a 100 odd miles we have good snow this year and i'm very happy with my newest winter toy ...just love doing the guage sweep when i start it ...so cool....buds wanna race ..still gettin a handle on the beast ...good day to all .

 

[CaptCaper]

On a side note the engine has to be cranking fast to start. They won't start unless the battery can turn over the machine fast. These aren't like to old machines that will start with a battery lower then full charge. They need a certain voltage or amps to fire up.

 

[ruso]

I'm pretty up on fuel system delivery on fuel injected engines just sayin.. I 'm sure with a usb port on the ecu or ecm whichever you choose to call it , was an available option along with Yamaha software I could map it richer for cold start easy customization to a map really . or a thundermax sort of set up throw the stock module on the bench and stick one in that's user friendly no piggy back system "pcv" that only enhances the original ecu's mapping...but that being said Capt sir I have a tender that goes on every night on this sled I've made it as simple as getting off plug into standard automotive plug in on both charger and neatly located on sled and walk away it shuts down when fully charged and maintains it that way ...I always hook up at night on my Harley when I get home during riding season just cause I like the instant fire I get on cold start ..even in summer ....so yes i'm extremely informed as to how important that the cell be at its optimum charge to allow strong voltage to the ecu and cranking amps to spin it quickly as possible.....this said ...we do wilderness cabins ...trappers association permission 20 years annual pilgrimage....13 cabins remotely located no grommed trails these are provincially maintained routes "once every 5 years" axe mandatory ..but we've been doing this since it was a we should try this kinda thing ..we were a lot younger than, but its different than the hotel thing...and we are always well stalked,,,always took the touring 600 last years rack saddle bags 136 in skid good sled all round gonna let my bud take the mule this year and I put tankbag , rear matching cargo bag and Yamaha oem rack on the apex ...nice ...excellent to go anywhere overnight...just worry about those cold mornings.....was dead set against a command start idea

 

[ViperTurboPete]

Well, I have been to remote lodges and where several sleds required hot water on their cylinders and firing up their sleds, you would be too! Regardless, it works in a pinch and its only water. You don't need very much.

My sleds usually start but it all depends on the battery. Hot water warms up the cylinders and allows the pistons to crank over fast. I hear ya about not wanting to pour water on your sled every single time. To me, it sounds like something is a little off with your sled if it gives you cold starting problems all the time.

 

[ruso]

rx did you say off ....like off what off the shelf like 800 miles new off ....I mean in Canada this sled new retails for around 17 k ...k? so if I tell my buddies hey look i'll be right back gotta pull my hood clips pull my breather I take it or just pour right in there and u know the iphones are gonna be taking pics ..you tube probably ...seen the vid Detroit lake huge event team Yamaha with huge battery chargers and blow driers in hand in front of their hotel ...some guy smiles into the camera and says its -20 below and the pigs are down....saw that the day I bought it ....thought It was add from doo or poo....I guess they didn't have any hot water....wow......no hey guy don't know where you live but do you know what -40 feels like not including windchill....its not gonna happen without a rip cord and choke w carbs....sorry to tell ya all my carbs go always....this was the down side of this quest for cleaner emmissions and fourstrokes in harsh enviroments...just sayin....my buddy jumped on board a new Viking Professional got rid of his bearcat 550 pullstart and electric , electric deadweight to those guys its so cold on the lake in the morning they commercial fish, at any rate when I bought mine he inquired about yamahas utility line he liked the pro ....but no pull cord...dealer says not necessary with the genesis three carbed she'll go no mater what ....so far he spent more time boosting than setting nets in the mornings at -35 he said and will be going back to a carbed w choke style w pull just to get the job done....a bit of a shame really...you would think those little buggers are pretty smart....maybe Yamaha would like some crown land for R and D from around these parts...it is what it is.....just sayin

 

[slimjim2525]

rx did you say off ....like off what off the shelf like 800 miles new off ....I mean in Canada this sled new retails for around 17 k ...k? so if I tell my buddies hey look i'll be right back gotta pull my hood clips pull my breather I take it or just pour right in there and u know the iphones are gonna be taking pics ..you tube probably ...seen the vid Detroit lake huge event team Yamaha with huge battery chargers and blow driers in hand in front of their hotel ...some guy smiles into the camerar and say its -20 below and the pigs are down....saw that the day I bought it ....thought It was add from doo or poo....I guess they didn't have any hot water....wow......no hey guy don't know where you live but do you know what -40 feels like not including windchill....its not gonna happen without a rip cord and choke w carbs....sorry to tell ya all my carbs go always....this was the down side of this quest for cleaner emmissions and fourstrokes in harsh enviroments...just sayin....my buddy jumped on board a new Viking Professional got rid of his bearcat 550 pullstart and electric , electric deadweight to those guys its so cold on the lake in the morning they commercial fish, at any rate when I bought mine he inquired about yamahas utility line he liked the pro ....but no pull cord...dealer says not necessary with the genesis three carbed she'll go no mater what ....so far he spent more time boosting than setting nets in the mornings at -35 he said and will be going back to a carbed w choke style w pull just to get the job done....a bit of a shame really...you would think those little buggers are pretty smart....maybe Yamaha would like some crown land for R and D from around these parts...it is what it is.....just sayin

If your battery is fully charged then start it like I described and you should have no problem. I pretty much ride only in Quebec and have started it in -30 to -40 with no problem except when it first starts it takes some balls to hold the gas open a little while it starts, it sounds like the valves are gonna pop out until the oil gets circulating. Also don't under estimate the water trick. I have seen it done many times on 2 and 4 strokes. But don't use hot water, use cold water. If your sled is -30 degrees and the wated it 40 degrees, that's a 70 degree difference.

 

[ViperTurboPete]

Not sure about the Apex, but the head on my RX is easy to access....just open the hood. Nytro is a different story. -40C is not uncommon around here.

 

[maim]

you could always try rotating the primary by hand until the engine frees up. had to do this one a few times on the rx.

 

[Ultrafrozen]

One thing you can do if not already done is put 100% synthetic oil in the engine as it stays more fluid in the extreme cold.

The anti-gravity battery pack might be a good thing to keep on hand. I'm not sure if using it to heat the oil, coolant or battery would be more effective, any ideas?

 

[RtxViper]

After u prime the pump turn key to start and hold it for an extra second or two and that will keep it running had the same problem with mine and that seemed to work every time after it. I know bought a pcv from lumber racing and that made it quite a bit better also it fires and picks up right away no stumble

It doesn't grind the starter. Just keeps the engine cranking during the initial stumble so it does die. Works every time