2013 apex cold start flooding

[Apexpat]

Last year I had a cold start issue with my 13 Apex. I believe it was caused by a weak battery that just couldn’t crank fast enough. Put in a higher 310 CCA battery and that seemed to have solved the problem. This year my coldest start was in -10 and fired right up. Rode my sled this past Sunday started up as usual no issue. Sled sat 2 days then went to start, wasn’t very cold around 20 degrees. Went to start and almost fired, mad the fatal mistake and let off the key before the engine was running. Tried to start a few more times and was sputtering and could smell the fuel and knew it wasn’t gonna start. Waited 15 minutes went back out with a jump pack since battery was slightly wearing down with the excessive cracking and it fired up. Rode for the day no and issues and fired right up the next morning.
I have a few questions
1) I know that staying on the key is crucial when starting cold and don’t let up till the engine starts. When it didn’t start I believe I turned the key back to off then the fuel pump cycled again and I tried to start. By recycling the fuel pump again is this just dumping more fuel into the cylinders and creating a worse condition? Instead of turning the key to off and recycling the fuel pump would it be better to just try to crank again from the start position?
2)I have heard some suggest valve clearance adjustment for higher mileage engines. Mine just flipped 16,000 miles. Could this be a possibility why it’s getting a little crankier with cold starts?

This sled has never been a hard starter until last year and I’ve owned it since 2013. I had a really old battery in it so I’m sure that’s what happened last year. Yesterday’s flooding issue had me scratching my head as to what happened since I thought the issue was fixed. Hoping just a minor hiccup and not future cold starting issues. This thing has been solid. I have no interest in buying anything else new or switching brands.

 

[DARKMAN]

When was the last time you replaced the spark plugs? I would start there, but sounds like a fluke if it was starting well after the new battery.

 

[Apexpat]

When was the last time you replaced the spark plugs? I would start there, but sounds like a fluke if it was starting well after the new battery.

Replaced plugs with the battery

 

[maim]

apex motors do not usually need short time on valve adjustments but anything is possible. at around 23000 mi on my 11 and have not touched the valves yet.

 

[Apexpat]

apex motors do not usually need short time on valve adjustments but anything is possible. at around 23000 mi on my 11 and have not touched the valves yet.

So on question number 1. If it doesn’t initially start leave key in on position and crank again or turn key to off to recharge fuel pump and crank again? I turned the key to off and recycled fuel pump again, could really smell fuel after that.

 

[dmaxx]

So on question number 1. If it doesn’t initially start leave key in on position and crank again or turn key to off to recharge fuel pump and crank again? I turned the key to off and recycled fuel pump again, could really smell fuel after that.

When really cold, I cycle the key/fuel pump a couple of times and seems to work.

 

[74Nitro]

So on question number 1. If it doesn’t initially start leave key in on position and crank again or turn key to off to recharge fuel pump and crank again? I turned the key to off and recycled fuel pump again, could really smell fuel after that.

That has nothing to do with it. Even if you left the machine sit for days it still has fuel pressure, it doesn't all bleed off.
The fuel pump cycling just ensures it's up to the specified fuel system pressure. Cycle as many times as you want, the pressure doesn't go any higher and is not injected into the throttle bodies until the engine is cranked.

 

[74Nitro]

Last year I had a cold start issue with my 13 Apex. I believe it was caused by a weak battery that just couldn’t crank fast enough. Put in a higher 310 CCA battery and that seemed to have solved the problem. This year my coldest start was in -10 and fired right up. Rode my sled this past Sunday started up as usual no issue. Sled sat 2 days then went to start, wasn’t very cold around 20 degrees. Went to start and almost fired, mad the fatal mistake and let off the key before the engine was running. Tried to start a few more times and was sputtering and could smell the fuel and knew it wasn’t gonna start. Waited 15 minutes went back out with a jump pack since battery was slightly wearing down with the excessive cracking and it fired up. Rode for the day no and issues and fired right up the next morning.
I have a few questions
1) I know that staying on the key is crucial when starting cold and don’t let up till the engine starts. When it didn’t start I believe I turned the key back to off then the fuel pump cycled again and I tried to start. By recycling the fuel pump again is this just dumping more fuel into the cylinders and creating a worse condition? Instead of turning the key to off and recycling the fuel pump would it be better to just try to crank again from the start position?
2)I have heard some suggest valve clearance adjustment for higher mileage engines. Mine just flipped 16,000 miles. Could this be a possibility why it’s getting a little crankier with cold starts?

This sled has never been a hard starter until last year and I’ve owned it since 2013. I had a really old battery in it so I’m sure that’s what happened last year. Yesterday’s flooding issue had me scratching my head as to what happened since I thought the issue was fixed. Hoping just a minor hiccup and not future cold starting issues. This thing has been solid. I have no interest in buying anything else new or switching brands.

Staying on the key was crucial to the early Vipers with the poor ecu mapping, but not to any Apex's.

 

[Apexpat]

That has nothing to do with it. Even if you left the machine sit for days it still has fuel pressure, it doesn't all bleed off.
The fuel pump cycling just ensures it's up to the specified fuel system pressure. Cycle as many times as you want, the pressure doesn't go any higher and is not injected into the throttle bodies until the engine is cranked.

So every time you cycle the key and hear the fuel pump cycle it’s not dumping fuel into the cylinders creating a greater flooded condition? It’s just pressurizing the fuel rail?

 

[Apexpat]

When really cold, I cycle the key/fuel pump a couple of times and seems to work.

Why does cycling the fuel pump a few times create a better cold starting condition?

 

[74Nitro]

So every time you cycle the key and hear the fuel pump cycle it’s not dumping fuel into the cylinders creating a greater flooded condition? It’s just pressurizing the fuel rail?

correct

 

[maim]

ensures proper pressure at injectors before starting. when really cold out (-30 c), keep it cranking until it fires on all cylinders. otherwise it floods and will not start.

 

[Apexpat]

ensures proper pressure at injectors before starting. when really cold out (-30 c), keep it cranking until it fires on all cylinders. otherwise it floods and will not start.

Yep that’s what happened on the last start. Let off the key before it was started. Cranked again and was surprised I could smell the fuel already and knew I was done. Wasn’t that cold out, shouldn’t flood on the second attempt at a start. I shouldn’t complain it’s only happened a few times in 16,000 miles. However it’s become more frequent the past 2 winters when all flooding occurred. The cause last year was a weak battery, hoping this year just a hiccup. Headed back up north next week hoping for that not to happen again. Real pain in the #*$&@ to start the day.

 

[Apexpat]

Follow up since my last post. Sleds been sitting 2 weeks since I last had the issue. Not real cold today 20F. Cranked fine started to fire then sputtered. Stayed on the key for 20 seconds just wouldn’t catch to start. Waited a minute tried to restart sputtered again can’t quite start, cracked the throttle slightly and it started. Definitely smell the fuel and could tell it’s flooded. Just rode it 35 miles and it runs/idles fine. Could a plug be fouled from the initial problem 2 weeks ago? But wouldn’t it just not start or run rough? After both flooded issues managed to get it started and runs fine for the day. Wondering if I may have a separate cold starting issue? Should I just change the plugs and see if that resolves the issue? Sled had the original plugs for the first 12,000 miles never a starting issue. First had this issue last year changed plugs and put in a new battery thought it resolved it. No issues the first 2 months of this season started perfect now same issue as last year. Is there any other type of sensor that could be an issue?

 

[maim]

you might have fouled a plug. i usually go for a bit longer ride than that and make sure it gets hot.