phazerfly
Extreme
Hey there Gypsy, you should probably take it back to your dealer to get checked out. My sled has started with no problems at -30C. Cranked over 3 to 4 times and fired right up, so I would think yours should be starting at -10F with no problems. IMO.
BV1
Expert
-22 last week,fired right up
Irondoghalf
Veteran
GypsyRoots said:OK I called the dealer...he said to put a bottle of "thermal aid" and try after an hour...
My girl's machine started, but only after a lot of cranking.
I think part of my problem is runnin a blend of regular gas and avgas, which is 100 Low Lead. Avgas does have some issues with vaporizing in cold weather. But out here, 500 miles from the nearest highway, the gas pump only has 83 octane. That is why I have running a 50/50 mix.
I will try to get it started and will run that tank down, so I can see if the car gas will start easier.
Thanks everyone!
10 below ain't squat, as we both know. That thing ought to fire right up. Could be the blend gas. Don't mix it. That 4s is much more tolerant of poor quality gas than any two stroke, think about it: Everyone runs it in their 4s outboards, atvs, etc there, no different with your sled. Leave the AV gas for the guys in the skies. Second, up here, ALWAYS use fuel dryer in your gas, just be certain to use 100% isopropyl based, NOT the methanol variety. If you have Heet products there, its in the red bottle. The stuff you don't want is Heet in the Yellow bottle, thats methanol.
Good luck, let us know if this helps. Plan "B" is more involved, but we'll make it start.
Oak Hill
VIP Member
Your gas is the issue. Just run 83 if that is all you have, you will be just fine. As you mentioned, vaporization is the issue with higher octane fuel in cold weather. 
gsxr
TY 4 Stroke Master
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STARTING
You would have trouble starting your lycoming without preheat , partly oil issues but the fuel, 100LL as well , does not want to atomize that cold.
You would have trouble starting your lycoming without preheat , partly oil issues but the fuel, 100LL as well , does not want to atomize that cold.
Thrusted Vector
Expert
I found that changing the plugs made a big differance.What I think happened is that starting and stopping the engine before it was properly warmed up , the efi goes to full rich and fuel soaks the plugs.It was cold outside ,barely freezing and it would not go,so I changed the plugs and now it fires up right away.
powder muncher
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
We have several of them here and they do have a big problem starting in the cold. They will not start period in anything colder than-30 Celsius.
Our dealer is on it , there are a number of unhappy customers that use them for work. I have to make sure the battery is right up on my girlfriends in the cold , a little throttle seems to help a bit but so far I am not impressed . By the way the old 700 starts up -30 with straight av gas no problem so does the RX turbo.
Our dealer is on it , there are a number of unhappy customers that use them for work. I have to make sure the battery is right up on my girlfriends in the cold , a little throttle seems to help a bit but so far I am not impressed . By the way the old 700 starts up -30 with straight av gas no problem so does the RX turbo.
LazyBastard
TY 4 Stroke God
I have to caution you about the 83 gas... Cold temperatures means higher air density, which requires better gas. These things run on ninety-something and have to cut the ignition back for regular (87).
powder muncher
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
I just talket to my dealer here and it seems that after the engine is broke in they start way better, it may be worth doing a trial with av gas to see .
Our sled seem to start better now that it has some miles on it also, however it has been warm.
Our sled seem to start better now that it has some miles on it also, however it has been warm.
Phazed-Coug
Expert
The higher the octane the slower it burns.
thats why AV gas won't spark well enough in the cold.
thats why AV gas won't spark well enough in the cold.
Irondoghalf
Veteran
GypsyRoots said:Ok! It got kinda cold again...12 below F this morning. Sled parked outside all night with the cover on...fired right up, well two 5 second cranks, which is totally acceptable to me.
The problem seems to be the gas choice. No more avgas for the Black Lite.
Any suggestions on fuel additives for the S*%#@ 83 octane gas I can buy here?
I am paying $5 bucks a gallon for the nastiest gas, my sled deserves better...
Of course it is going to cost a fortune to get flamable liquids shipped out here!!! Airplane access only to Bethel...
You don't need octane boost. If you're happy with the engine performance as its running now, leave it all alone.
Like I mentioned earlier, large 4 stroke outboards are high performance, and I know there are a ton of them on the Kusko and Yukon, all burning the same gas as you and they work fine on 83 octane. The 4s is very forgiving, which is fortunate for us out in the bush.
gabe7924
Pro
You might as well use moonshine instead of av gas. That stuff is crap!!
ReX
TY 4 Stroke God
I've been skimming through these Phazer threads a little and being a motor head I figured I'd voice my concerns...
The Phazer's 500cc motor has a very high compression ratio. The computer can only do so much with regard to retarding the timing and enriching the mixture to control pre-ignition. I expect Yamaha has only designed it to be safe down to a certain octane level. 87? 86? who knows, but at sea level it's probably one of those and not 83.
What elevation are you running the sled at? As you increase the elevation, the effective engine compression reduces. This means at high elevations you don't need as high an octane.
If you're high enough I'm sure 83 will be fine, but if you're running it at sea level it could be very bad for the engine. The motor might not fail immediately (hole in the piston for example), but the uncontrolled pre-ignition could shorten the engine life considerably, lead to oil consumption, carbon build up (because it will be running with retarded ignition settings) and low compression.
I recommend you talk to Yamaha about this - or at least find someone who can calculate the effect of elevation on required octane and see if 83 gets you to the equivalent of 86/87 for your elevation.
The Phazer's 500cc motor has a very high compression ratio. The computer can only do so much with regard to retarding the timing and enriching the mixture to control pre-ignition. I expect Yamaha has only designed it to be safe down to a certain octane level. 87? 86? who knows, but at sea level it's probably one of those and not 83.
What elevation are you running the sled at? As you increase the elevation, the effective engine compression reduces. This means at high elevations you don't need as high an octane.
If you're high enough I'm sure 83 will be fine, but if you're running it at sea level it could be very bad for the engine. The motor might not fail immediately (hole in the piston for example), but the uncontrolled pre-ignition could shorten the engine life considerably, lead to oil consumption, carbon build up (because it will be running with retarded ignition settings) and low compression.
I recommend you talk to Yamaha about this - or at least find someone who can calculate the effect of elevation on required octane and see if 83 gets you to the equivalent of 86/87 for your elevation.
GypsyRoots
Expert
Why would you say that????gabe7924 said:
Avgas is some of the best, cleanest burning gas around, shy of full blown racing fuel...All of my engines have always loved running on it, including the Black Lite, it's just hard to vaporize it the cold...If the machine started with it, I would use it straight on every tank.
Thanks again!
