skippydoo
Veteran
- Joined
- Dec 11, 2004
- Messages
- 30
I see alot of guys have the ZX 2 suspension in their sleds, but I hardly see anyone with an Airwave. I'd like to hear your thoughts as to why.
LazyBastard
TY 4 Stroke God
Because fast has a history of being SLOW and HIGH MAINTENANCE, plus the "airwave" is just another spring option for the same old skid that they've been making forever. Note that I say SPRING as there is nothing special about their shocks. ADB on the other hand, has a history of being FAST and DURABLE, AND they have fancy new multi-rate shocks.
jzack
Veteran
I can tell by your post you've never ridden an Airwave. I have over 2000 miles on an Airwave and have compared to MANY other skids from all the OEMs. Nothing even comes close. After riding one you won't look at a rough trail the same way again. It's hard to imagine anything working better. It would be fun to see another comparison test between all the aftermarket skids (Airwave, ZX-2, EZ-ryde) similar to the previous one on this site. How about it TY?
LazyBastard
TY 4 Stroke God
Wow, thats pretty daring for 5 posts.
And comparing it to all the OEM skids relates in NO WAY to comparing it with other aftermarket skids, WHICH IS THE TOPIC HERE.
And comparing it to all the OEM skids relates in NO WAY to comparing it with other aftermarket skids, WHICH IS THE TOPIC HERE.
ahicks
TY 4 Stroke Master
Speaking for myself regarding the Airwave, the Apex is a fairly high performance machine. People that own them are looking for more than just a good ride. Big time weight transfer issues, along with top end loss issues pretty much take the Fast suspension out of the picture for me. FWIW.
Mikey
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
Its A well known FACT that adding A Fast suspension = SLOWER sled...
jzack
Veteran
I've always had the same concerns about the M-10 as every other aggressive rider (loss of topend, no transfer) so I always said no thanks. But after riding and comparing the Airwave side by side to an M-10 there are some definite differences.
Topend loss- this is something that has become less and less of an issue as the OEM skids have become almost just as tall as the M-10 over the years. What used to be 5-10 mph loss is now closer to 2-3 mph.
Secondly, the neat thing about the Airwave is with the touch of a button you can lower the skid to drag-race height, pretty much eliminating the aggressive approach angle of the track. I've actually seen a 2-3 mph gain when trying this.
Weight Transfer- When jumping from an M-10 to an Airwave I did notice more transfer, not as much as some OEMs but definitely a quick, controlled, shift of weight to the track. No more sit and spin as the M-10 did.
This is accomplished by spring position on the rear torque-arm. The air-spring is mounted more perpindicular to the arm than the M-10. When one applies torque to the track on the M-10, it has to fight all the spring force in that massive coil spring before it can slide the coupler blocks. On the Airwave, the air-spring can tilt back and forth with hardly any effort, allowing the torque-arm to slide in the coupler-slot with much more ease.
I've even heard of guys running w/o a limiter-strap being able to pull the skis a good 6" to 12" off the ground!
Air-spring vs. Steel spring- After studying and testing rolling-lobe air-springs for a few years now, I've found they will ALWAYS out-perform a steel spring in all critical areas- isolation capability, bottom-out resistance, and range of adjustment.
All other variables being equal, an air-spring supension will have a much LOWER NATURAL FREQUENCY than one that is sprung by steel. What does this mean? Every sledder probably has realized the effect of getting a smoother ride by actually riding faster over a rough trail. What they are actually doing is changing CPM of the FORCED FREQUENCY. The farther they can raise the forced frequency above their suspensions natural frequency the greater the isolation capabilities of the skid.
This effect gives the Airwave a huge built-in advantage. In order for a steel sprung skid to match the low natural frequency of the Airwave it would need a spring length of around 20". Good luck fitting that in a sled suspension!
Air-springs also have a great advantage in bottom-out resistance. Their spring-rate is a true progressive rate that rises exponentially. In comparison, steel springs are either straight-rate or multi-rate. Even the multi-rates aren't truely progressive because they are really just two or three straight-rates stacked on top of each other: more of a step-rate actually.
Hope this long rambling post actually clears up any misinformation out there about the Airwave. Since I've never ridden a ZX-2 I can't really make fair comparison other than they both weigh about the same- 53lbs.
Topend loss- this is something that has become less and less of an issue as the OEM skids have become almost just as tall as the M-10 over the years. What used to be 5-10 mph loss is now closer to 2-3 mph.
Secondly, the neat thing about the Airwave is with the touch of a button you can lower the skid to drag-race height, pretty much eliminating the aggressive approach angle of the track. I've actually seen a 2-3 mph gain when trying this.
Weight Transfer- When jumping from an M-10 to an Airwave I did notice more transfer, not as much as some OEMs but definitely a quick, controlled, shift of weight to the track. No more sit and spin as the M-10 did.
This is accomplished by spring position on the rear torque-arm. The air-spring is mounted more perpindicular to the arm than the M-10. When one applies torque to the track on the M-10, it has to fight all the spring force in that massive coil spring before it can slide the coupler blocks. On the Airwave, the air-spring can tilt back and forth with hardly any effort, allowing the torque-arm to slide in the coupler-slot with much more ease.
I've even heard of guys running w/o a limiter-strap being able to pull the skis a good 6" to 12" off the ground!
Air-spring vs. Steel spring- After studying and testing rolling-lobe air-springs for a few years now, I've found they will ALWAYS out-perform a steel spring in all critical areas- isolation capability, bottom-out resistance, and range of adjustment.
All other variables being equal, an air-spring supension will have a much LOWER NATURAL FREQUENCY than one that is sprung by steel. What does this mean? Every sledder probably has realized the effect of getting a smoother ride by actually riding faster over a rough trail. What they are actually doing is changing CPM of the FORCED FREQUENCY. The farther they can raise the forced frequency above their suspensions natural frequency the greater the isolation capabilities of the skid.
This effect gives the Airwave a huge built-in advantage. In order for a steel sprung skid to match the low natural frequency of the Airwave it would need a spring length of around 20". Good luck fitting that in a sled suspension!
Air-springs also have a great advantage in bottom-out resistance. Their spring-rate is a true progressive rate that rises exponentially. In comparison, steel springs are either straight-rate or multi-rate. Even the multi-rates aren't truely progressive because they are really just two or three straight-rates stacked on top of each other: more of a step-rate actually.
Hope this long rambling post actually clears up any misinformation out there about the Airwave. Since I've never ridden a ZX-2 I can't really make fair comparison other than they both weigh about the same- 53lbs.
Indy
TY 4 Stroke God
jzack
Thank you for your post. I think I will add the airwave to my M10.
Thank you for your post. I think I will add the airwave to my M10.
jzack
Veteran
Glad to help Indy. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised with the performance of the Airwave conversion to your M-10.
DKBrigs27th
Veteran
I've been riding and RX1 with the airwave suspension and I can tell you without a doubt that this is the best ride out there in my opinion. Once u try it, you won't go back.
Boomer
Expert
I think I'm going to have to look at upgrading to the Airwave also.
The M-10 was the best thing I ever did for my sled!
To the guys who bash the M-10 for whatever reasons you have regarding loss of top speed or whatever else. Not everyone is a lake racer or any other type of racer. I want to enjoy the time I spend on the sled enjoying mother nature and time with my friends on the trails. The M-10 is a proven commodity with good customer service and readily available parts should it ever need it.
The last time I was out with my friends, they commented on how comfortable and isolated from the bumps I looked. Meanwhile they had to rest their back and bums from the harsh ride they got on their cats. I just smiled and said "thanks, yeah it is nice".
The M-10 was the best thing I ever did for my sled!
To the guys who bash the M-10 for whatever reasons you have regarding loss of top speed or whatever else. Not everyone is a lake racer or any other type of racer. I want to enjoy the time I spend on the sled enjoying mother nature and time with my friends on the trails. The M-10 is a proven commodity with good customer service and readily available parts should it ever need it.
The last time I was out with my friends, they commented on how comfortable and isolated from the bumps I looked. Meanwhile they had to rest their back and bums from the harsh ride they got on their cats. I just smiled and said "thanks, yeah it is nice".
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