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Anybody ever think about buying a 2 stroke again


craze1cars said:
Depends on the application.

For a trail sled? Probably not...I think 4 stroke is the way to go on that front. And this board seems to be mostly trail riders, and I don't think that's a coincidence. Mountain riders simply don't buy Yamahas, so theyr'e not on this board. So I'm still buying 2 strokes for my mountain sleds and probably will continue to do so. Yamaha's 4 stroke mountain sled simply is not competitive in comparison....yet. And before anyone asks...YES, I have ridden an Apex Mountain...for a full day...IN the mountains. So I'm qualified to make such a statement. (In fact that day-long ride is what sold me on wanting an Attak for a trail sled, but ONLY for a trail sled)

But show me true Direct Injection on a 2 stroke trail sled? Then I might go back to a 2 stroke on the trails as well...and I'm sure it's just around the corner for Doo (given their Evinrude E-TEC technology that's at their disposal), if not also for the others.

We just have to get past this SDI hurdle, which is good but not great. Offer DI in a new chassis (which is also over-due from Doo)...and NOW you've got something that can offer viable competition against a 4 stroke...I'd have to give such a thing some serious consideration if/when it comes out.

Yamaha's 4 strokes are great sleds trail sleds. Period. But for mountain riding & boondocking, weight DOES make a huge difference. The fine job Yamaha does with weight distribution in an effor to "mask" the extra weight is totally meaningless when you're actually trying to move through, and eventuall manually dig out, of neck high powder on a steep hillside. Dead weight is dead weight, and weight distribution doesn't change the laws of physics. As an example, I can dig out a Yamaha 15 times before exhaustion and calling it a day. But my Doo I can dig out 18 times for the same amount of energy...PLUS it was less likely to get stuck in the first place, which means for any given day my friends and I can get probably 25% more riding time on a mountain Doo than a mountain Yamaha (4 stroke). So Doo it is.

A lot of arguments here in favor of better reliability/long life of 4 strokes. True. But again, that's meaningless for me. A 2 stroke trail sled will last 5,000 to 6,000 miles easily. Well before that time, I'm normally trading in for new anyway. And for my mountain sleds that time frame is even shorter. As for Doos melting pistons? I'm not saying it doesn't happen, and they ARE more likely to suffer such a burndown than a 4 stroke, but I am saying that in about 100,000 miles of Doo SDI riding split between me and all my other friends over the past several years, We've personally NEVER witnessed it first hand. So I don't think it's as wide spread a problem as some make it out to be. Contrary to what many people think who frequent these boards (ALL boards for all brands, not just this one) multiple internet posts on a topic do NOT necessarily make a fact.

And cost of oil or fuel economy? If I'm in this sport to save money, I'm an idiot. Snowmobiling costs cash and I'm willing to spend it. But fuel economy is meaningful to me in one front....range. Again a fuel pig will shorten a mountain ride where there are no gas stations....or make it harder because you have to carry extra fuel cans (more dead weight). BUT....Doo SDI's are known to be matching and/or beating Yamahas in fuel economy (which is why most of the people in our Mountain riding club are on Doos instead of Poos or Cats, or the long-in-the-tooth Moutain Max which I owned in the late 90's....we've run them all over the years.) And DI will only make them better yet. So I don't buy into the fuel economy argument either.

4 years from now will be REAL interesting, IMO. I'm not fiercely brand loyal, and I'm always open to new things and switching brands to whomever offers the best for my application, so my answer may change by then. But for now here's my rankings: # 1 trail sled: Yamaha. # 1 Mountain sled: Ski-Doo

Think snow!
Click to expand...

Im curious! What makes you want a Doo mountain sled over a KING CAT 900 or an M7 (those are the king of the mountains from what ive heard and read from alot of mountain riders)

Just a question not a bash ;)!
 
I got stuck riding my 02 viper after riding the attak when I damaged the attak. Boy was wanting that 4 stroke back. The smoke from the viper never bothered me before never noticed the smell to much but dam that two days of riding I noticed it quick..
 
welterracer said:
craze1cars said:
Depends on the application.

For a trail sled? Probably not...I think 4 stroke is the way to go on that front. And this board seems to be mostly trail riders, and I don't think that's a coincidence. Mountain riders simply don't buy Yamahas, so theyr'e not on this board. So I'm still buying 2 strokes for my mountain sleds and probably will continue to do so. Yamaha's 4 stroke mountain sled simply is not competitive in comparison....yet. And before anyone asks...YES, I have ridden an Apex Mountain...for a full day...IN the mountains. So I'm qualified to make such a statement. (In fact that day-long ride is what sold me on wanting an Attak for a trail sled, but ONLY for a trail sled)

But show me true Direct Injection on a 2 stroke trail sled? Then I might go back to a 2 stroke on the trails as well...and I'm sure it's just around the corner for Doo (given their Evinrude E-TEC technology that's at their disposal), if not also for the others.

We just have to get past this SDI hurdle, which is good but not great. Offer DI in a new chassis (which is also over-due from Doo)...and NOW you've got something that can offer viable competition against a 4 stroke...I'd have to give such a thing some serious consideration if/when it comes out.

Yamaha's 4 strokes are great sleds trail sleds. Period. But for mountain riding & boondocking, weight DOES make a huge difference. The fine job Yamaha does with weight distribution in an effor to "mask" the extra weight is totally meaningless when you're actually trying to move through, and eventuall manually dig out, of neck high powder on a steep hillside. Dead weight is dead weight, and weight distribution doesn't change the laws of physics. As an example, I can dig out a Yamaha 15 times before exhaustion and calling it a day. But my Doo I can dig out 18 times for the same amount of energy...PLUS it was less likely to get stuck in the first place, which means for any given day my friends and I can get probably 25% more riding time on a mountain Doo than a mountain Yamaha (4 stroke). So Doo it is.

A lot of arguments here in favor of better reliability/long life of 4 strokes. True. But again, that's meaningless for me. A 2 stroke trail sled will last 5,000 to 6,000 miles easily. Well before that time, I'm normally trading in for new anyway. And for my mountain sleds that time frame is even shorter. As for Doos melting pistons? I'm not saying it doesn't happen, and they ARE more likely to suffer such a burndown than a 4 stroke, but I am saying that in about 100,000 miles of Doo SDI riding split between me and all my other friends over the past several years, We've personally NEVER witnessed it first hand. So I don't think it's as wide spread a problem as some make it out to be. Contrary to what many people think who frequent these boards (ALL boards for all brands, not just this one) multiple internet posts on a topic do NOT necessarily make a fact.

And cost of oil or fuel economy? If I'm in this sport to save money, I'm an idiot. Snowmobiling costs cash and I'm willing to spend it. But fuel economy is meaningful to me in one front....range. Again a fuel pig will shorten a mountain ride where there are no gas stations....or make it harder because you have to carry extra fuel cans (more dead weight). BUT....Doo SDI's are known to be matching and/or beating Yamahas in fuel economy (which is why most of the people in our Mountain riding club are on Doos instead of Poos or Cats, or the long-in-the-tooth Moutain Max which I owned in the late 90's....we've run them all over the years.) And DI will only make them better yet. So I don't buy into the fuel economy argument either.

4 years from now will be REAL interesting, IMO. I'm not fiercely brand loyal, and I'm always open to new things and switching brands to whomever offers the best for my application, so my answer may change by then. But for now here's my rankings: # 1 trail sled: Yamaha. # 1 Mountain sled: Ski-Doo

Think snow!
Click to expand...

Im curious! What makes you want a Doo mountain sled over a KING CAT 900 or an M7 (those are the king of the mountains from what ive heard and read from alot of mountain riders)

Just a question not a bash ;)!
Click to expand...

Sadly the Doo Summit 1k is within pounds of the Apex Mountain. So where he's getting the "Too heavy" thing is beyond me. He'd have a case if he were talkin about the M-7 perhaps. Most people over on Snowest that have them like them from what I can see and the mags are certainly raving about it so far. That and turbo'd Apex mountain sleds get a lot of respect.
 
Sure a 2 stroke sounds cool pulling up to get gas or going to the bar.I still love the sound of a tripple 2 stroke.Altough I think those days are over.I think in 2 years you will look at 2 strokes as old school.
 
I look at them now as "old school" as far as i'm concerned this new four stroke stuff is the new technology....the others will someday get with the program.SDI and all thet other crap doesn't do nothing for me.One of the main reason's i no longer want a two stroke is the smell,there are many other's but.......i simply cannot stand the smell any more.
 
I just left my friends house.We were looking at his sleds Both are 04 Polaris.Lift the hood of one of those things there is so much room in there.I think he could put 3 bottles nos in there.Im having trouble just trying to find room for one.
 
Iwas on Bigwin Island Golf course Sat night drunk and ended up in a bunker. I had to count 4 strokes to get out. If i would of had my 9 hundred i would have only counted 2. When my buddies where helping me out we where pissing ourselfs laughing.About that fact.
 
One thing that SDI doesn't fix (other than reliability) is the nasty fumes coming out of the 2 Strokes. It's funny, I always rode last for years behind all the 2 strokes (when I was riding one too) and it never really bothered me. Last year however there was ONE 2 stroke in our group and I couldn't stand it anymore. Really, it would just burn my eyes, give me a headache and just really made the ride miserable. If I ever doubted before that moment, I never will again AFTER that. Now, I knew I wanted a 4 stroke in 2003, and at the time I was riding a Cat. I hounded my dealer over and over wondering when Cat was going to come out with a REAL 4 stroke High Performance sled. He tried to convince me to get the 660 turbo, but that wasn't going to happen. Eventually the time cam to make a purchase, and in my mind Yamaha had the only viable option. If the others come out with something comparable or better I would consider them too. It's the 4 stroke that brought me in. I do like Yamaha so far, but then I never had an issue with Cat either and the dealer was WAYYYYYYY better than my Yammie dealer.
 
QCRider said:
One thing that SDI doesn't fix (other than reliability) is the nasty fumes coming out of the 2 Strokes. It's funny, I always rode last for years behind all the 2 strokes (when I was riding one too) and it never really bothered me. Last year however there was ONE 2 stroke in our group and I couldn't stand it anymore. Really, it would just burn my eyes, give me a headache and just really made the ride miserable.
Click to expand...

Amen to that. I've found the SDI's seem to stink less, but I agree 100% it's still there. I'm curious about true DI, if that would eliminate it or not.
I, too, have become more sensitive to the fumes in recent years...and I'm not really sure why. The good news for me personally is that I'm usually either a.) leading trail rides, or b.) not riding nose-to-tail trail rides cause we're all over the place breaking our own trail while boondocking/mountain riding. So I don't usually get the fumes.

But my most recent trip last week to the UP I brought up the rear for a couple days. And it STINKS back there. In a couple slow sections of one-track moguls we were on, I could actually see a blue haze floating over the Polaris's!

Such observations certainly seem to give some credibility to the environmental pollution complaints about 2 stroke snowmobiles. On the same topic, I'm one of seemingly few snowmobilers who is HAPPY that the EPA stuck their nose into our business and is forcing a gradual emissions cleanup. Whatever form the clean power takes (2 stroke, 4 stroke, electric, hydrogen fuel cell...let's get creative here!) is fine by me, as long as they're efficient and clean while maintaining or increasing power output. Cleaner sleds are more pleasant to ride, cheaper to fill with fuel/oil, and makes the environmental groups happier which may help keep our sport strong. Win/win for everyone, only negative being that it makes sleds cost a few bucks more. But I say it's money well spent.
 
You can compare dry weights all you want, but the Summit weighed in wet by AmSnow a while ago at 687. Like I said it's within lb's. I've seen some positive reports on the Apex Mountain over at Snowest and some Vids turbo and nonturbo'd with some good riders who flipped the thing back and forth with apparent ease. Perhaps you just prefer a different riding style who knows. I'm a flatlander (who wishes he lived near the mountains) so I don't have personal experience, just read up on it as much as I can. But it's like all things I guess I've switched sleds with people before on certain makes and when they got off said that they felt mine was too big for them and they preferred a light sled they could whip around the corners with. I didn't really get it since I felt mine cornered better and didn't feel like I was going to break my tailbone in the bumps. Too each his own I guess.
 
I thought about getting a 2 stroke weedeater once , but I decided to go for quality and got a Honda instead.Hate the smell of that 2 stroke crap.
 
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