Apex clutch alignment

[RTX]

I was just wrapping up some work on my 06 rtx and decided maybe i should check my clutch alignment. I blew a belt at the end of last season
at or around the 1200 mile mark.
I used the same advantedge motorsport clutch alignment tool that i use to align the clutches on my 02 viper. I am assuming it would be the same since they use the same belt.
what i found was that my clutches are out of alignment by aproximately .040-.050
I would like to have them perfect if it is possible.
I thought i read that the motor is not adjustable but i cant really remember for sure.
Any one have any info on adjusting the clutches on an apex.

 

[craze1cars]

What do you mean by out of alignment? Is the secondary not square with the primary, or is there just an even gap between the secondary and your alignment tool? If the latter, the gap is adjusted by removing or adding shims behind the secondary to bring it in or out. I found that belt deflection adjustment affects this measurement as well, so you need to make sure your belt deflection is correct at the same time you're checking alignment. AND make sure you push the secondary all the way in before checking alignment....it floats on the shaft and baseline requires it be pressed tight against the jackshaft bearing.

I also believe the is a minimal amount of shifting of the engine that can be done, but I am not sure about that...hopefully someone else here can advise for sure.

Bear in mind I admit I'm not a clutch expert here, but above is what I learned for myself when messing with my alignment tool on my Attak this summer...

 

[RTX]

the center to center distance between the primary and secondary is not aligned. sorry i should have posted that in my original post

 

[grader]

the engine is bolted in with 2 bolts at the front and 1 long bolt through the bulkhead at the rear.loosen all 3 and the engine can be moved slightly to set alignment and center to center.

 

[RTX]

sounds good.
Thank You!

 

[SledFreak]

I was just wrapping up some work on my 06 rtx and decided maybe i should check my clutch alignment. I blew a belt at the end of last season
at or around the 1200 mile mark.
I used the same advantedge motorsport clutch alignment tool that i use to align the clutches on my 02 viper. I am assuming it would be the same since they use the same belt.
what i found was that my clutches are out of alignment by aproximately .040-.050
I would like to have them perfect if it is possible.
I thought i read that the motor is not adjustable but i cant really remember for sure.
Any one have any info on adjusting the clutches on an apex.

This May Help.....

Think about your secondary clutch and how it aligns with your primary. Traditionally, Yamaha has installed there secondary to be "self aligning". While it makes sense, does it actually work? hmmmm.

The engine in the RX-1 is a solid mounted engine, meaning it cant move laterally towards the secondary drive shaft under acceleration loads. The idea of a "floating secondary" is that the driven clutch will move inwards or outwards on the drive shaft to compensate when the PTO side of the engine moves rearward under acceleration loads. That’s a mouthful. However, think about that a minute. If your engine doesn’t move, why on god’s earth do you need slop in your secondary? To allow for larger tolerances at assembly time? To make it less labor intensive for the dealer? My guess is both. Ski-Doo, Cat, and now Polaris all use "Locked" secondary and they have engines that do move because of the rubber in the motor mounts. With the installation of a good engine tensioner, you can run a locked secondary on any sled. Racers have been doing if for years, and now it’s trickling into the manufacturers. The Key is to make sure your alignment is absolutely perfect. Ill cover that in a bit. This has been bugging me for sometime, so I researched it further. I talked to many racers, dealers, and manufacturers and wrote a letter to Snow Tech and got a response from "Dear Ralph" in their first issue of 03/04. He agreed with this theory and mentioned there’s a reason certain manufacturers and now running "Locked Secondary".

For those of you completely lost, go lift the hood of your sled, put both hands on the secondary clutch and push in, now pull out. Notice it Moves? That’s "Float".

Yamaha uses a splined jackshaft and the inside of the secondary is also a splined. The fit is excellent, however in theory, it would be impossible for a clutch to "self align" under hard acceleration and hard brake loads. There is too much side pressure on the jackshaft to allow the secondary to move. So why do you need it? And why is Yamaha the only company to still "float" there secondary? hmmmmmm, Now on to the steps to properly align your clutches and to insure better belt life and better performance.

The Correct way:
1. Remove the Drive belt and Secondary
2. Add appx 2-40 thous thick shims to the Jackshaft. Reinstall Secondary making sure youve tightened the 14 MM bolt.
3. Using an offset tool check to make sure the offset is 15MM from the back of the secondary to the back of the primary. If not, remove secondary and add or subtract shims until the offset is perfect.
4. Reinstall secondary and belt and your done. This will lock your secondary into place and will not allow it to move on the shaft.

Alternate way:
1. Remove the Drive belt
2. Get a 18" piece of steel straight edge (or mechanics ruler), make sure its straight.
3. Open up the sheaves on the secondary and slide the straight edge all the way down to the bottom of the sheaves.
4. Let the secondary close so it pinches the straight edge making sure the other end is resting on the center primary bushing.
5. Take a look at where the straight edge comes to rest in the primary.
6. You want it perfectly centered on the shiny part (where the belt rubs)
7. To move the straight edge outwards, Take the secondary off and add shims until you get the straight edge to come to rest perfectly centered in the primary. Usually about .040 to .080 are how far they are off.

In conclusion, you can do whatever you wish with your clutches. But if you want longer lasting belts, cooler running clutches, and better performing sleds, you may want to try this.

BlueByYou2000

 

[black john]

alinment

yes you can move the moter by backing of the two front mounting bolts and the one long rear mounting bolt. by doing so you will find that there is a fair bit of movement. this sold mounted thing is abit of an urbn mith. it you dont belve me just run the sled a lack stand with the hood off and blip the gas a few times.

 

[apex yooper]

Freak,
I've locked secondaries for years. That was an excellent explanation. I have one question. Shouldn't the thickness of the straight edge be taken into account. If the inner sheave is moved inward to acomidate the straight edge, doesn't that change the center of the straight edge? Think about if you used a 1/2 inch straight edge. Would the center still be the center of the straight edge? Would you center the 1/2 inch piece in the primary?

 

[SledFreak]

You would center the 1/2 " straight edge in the Primary. Thank BlueByYou2000 for that post it was his technical advice in that post. The way he explained it to me is to use a straight mechanics ruler, which is I believe a good 1/16 to 1/8" thick and are good and straight. You have to measure from the outside of the sheeve to the ruler on the Primary, excluding the Nuetral position. Then once it is centered in the center of the Primary from the secondary, then off set it by 10 one thousand of an inch to the bulkhead and lock it there. If BlueByYou2000 could chine in, he could give a better explanation than me. Hope this helps.

 

[craze1cars]

Another note (and questions?) regarding that big link above from Sled Freak.

I locked my secondary (07 Attak) by installing the Goodwin belt deflection adjuster. After checking alignment, I found there was NOT a need to add any shims behind the secondary (above link says you'll need to add about 80 thous)...mine was perfectly aligned already by leaving the OEM shims in the same place they were (I checked it using a proper 15mm offset tool that just drops in, did not use a generic straight-edge). I spoke with Goodwin and sent them that link for them to read at the time. They responded by saying they disagreed with the printed recommendation above and OF COURSE my clutches were aligned without adding any shims...they said there is no way should you have to add any shims at all behind the secondary to correct the offset, because Yamaha specs call for the 15 mm measurement after pressing the floating secondary against the bearing. Locking the secondary does exactly that for you. So if Yamaha set offset correct during assembly, there's no need to add (or remove) shims when locking the secondary because it's now locked tight to the jackshaft bearing as it should be during measurement.

Basically Goodwin disagrees with the above "correct way" listed above of locking the secondary. And my meaurement agrees with what Goodwin told me, no need to add shims. I'm curious if others have an opinion or experience with that. The last time I mentioned this discrepancy here I got nothing but crickets...

I also noticed that when I increase or decrease belt deflection, the offset measurement changes along with it. So in my opinion it is critical to do a deflection adjustment FIRST, THEN check offset.

Again, I'm far from an expert on these Yamahas but I'm learning, would love to hear others thoughts about what I just wrote...please correct me if you feel I did something wrong or am misunderstanding something.

 

[SledFreak]

Another note (and questions?) regarding that big link above from Sled Freak.


I also noticed that when I increase or decrease belt deflection, the offset measurement changes along with it. So in my opinion it is critical to do a deflection adjustment FIRST, THEN check offset.

I agree with what your are saying here. I think we need to have Matt chine in here.

 

[BlueByYou2000]

Another note (and questions?) regarding that big link above from Sled Freak.


I also noticed that when I increase or decrease belt deflection, the offset measurement changes along with it. So in my opinion it is critical to do a deflection adjustment FIRST, THEN check offset.

I agree with what your are saying here. I think we need to have Matt chine in here.

Yes, the belt deflection needs to be taken into consideration. How I do it is determine my ideal deflection using a brand new belt, then lock from there. Instead of always messing with alignment as the belt wears, I just put a new belt on. It'll cost you a bit more each year in belts, but this way you know your always running the way you should.

As for the straight edge, it needs to be thin and you have to subtract neutral position. The best way I can explain it is to take a look at the center bushing of the primary. Notice that appx 95 percent of it is completely shiney? And the outer section towards the outiside of the cluch is dull? You want to center the straight edge on the shiney portion of the bushing. If you dont, and center it dead nuts in the middle of the bushing, your secondary will be out to far. Once that is done, I get it perfectly centered and take 10 thousands out behind the secondary to leave a leading edge and allow the natural flex of the motor to work the way it does. Even though the 4 stroke Yamahas are solid mounted, they will move slightly, so that 10 thousands accounts for that...BBY