Frostbite
TY 4 Stroke God
Gilbey
Expert
Reception would probably be something similar to this..... 
acceleration is so slow...(sniffle sniffle)...not enough hp....(sniffle sniffle).....it weighs a ton....(sob sob).
Too bad they just don't know
acceleration is so slow...(sniffle sniffle)...not enough hp....(sniffle sniffle).....it weighs a ton....(sob sob).Too bad they just don't know
Put your post over on AM SNOW YAMAHA board and the bashing guys would go nuts...
RX-1 Liter
Expert
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2003
- Messages
- 248
- Location
- Chautauqua County, NY
- Country
- USA
- Snowmobile
- 2017 RMK 155"
- LOCATION
- Chautauqua County, NY
They are virtually going down the same path imo. The good thing for 4-strokes is that the fastest production pwc this year is a 4-stroke! The Sea-doo RXP makes 215 hp so Yam will have to slap on a supercharger or Turbo on the FX-cruiser HO (currently 160 hp) to compete. This tech would hopefully bleed over into sleds.
Frostbite
TY 4 Stroke God
Good idea on the AM snow posting. The fur would be flying! Mercury has supercharged a fourstroke with their new Verado outboard to get 275 h.p. I love the idea but I'm not 100% convinced supercharging is the best way to go???? Sure it adds horse power but it also adds a new level of complexity and component stress to the mix.
It's probably just fine with a new engine but as an engine ages the costs of upkeep may not be worthwhile. PB
It's probably just fine with a new engine but as an engine ages the costs of upkeep may not be worthwhile. PB
LazyBastard
TY 4 Stroke God
I personally don't give a damn if its 2 or 4 stroke, if its a good motor, I'll like it. Current *good* 2-strokes leave nothing to be desired, but they are as complex as typical 4-strokes.
The complaints I've seen about 2-strokes are all BS...
2-stroke oil inconvienence? Make that MORE convienent than 4-stroke - once a year add a couple of gals to the can rather than having to DRAIN it, change the filter, fill it, clean up the mess, make sure that the level is correct, etc.
2-stroke oil stink... there is a lot to be said about using GOOD oil rather than crap. I started when I got my vmax hpdi outboard using shell green-bottle marine oil, its good oil, no stink, no smoke. Had to add and was on a lake where there was nothing for less than $50 a gal, so I borrowed a gal of mercury semi-synth... CRAP, makes it hard to start. Now I've got this CHEAP stuff in it, starts fine, runs great, but smoky and stinky. When I run that out, I'm going back to shell and staying there.
Noise? Sure Mercury and Bombardier (that means evinrude and johnson) are LOUD, but not a vmax. I hear the wind more than the motor at any speed up to 70 mph and can have a comfortable conversation with passengers without having to *speak loudly*.
Smooth? Feels damned near electric smooth.
That being said... I bought the thing before there was a 4-stroke available in the size range I needed... If I was buying now... damn. No idea. I guess it would come down to price. Hopefully there would be a more than $10 price difference to decide for me... though I really like the 2-stroke oil convienence. Oh yeah... one other thing. You don't have to "dispose of" 2-stroke oil... <BFG>
The complaints I've seen about 2-strokes are all BS...
2-stroke oil inconvienence? Make that MORE convienent than 4-stroke - once a year add a couple of gals to the can rather than having to DRAIN it, change the filter, fill it, clean up the mess, make sure that the level is correct, etc.
2-stroke oil stink... there is a lot to be said about using GOOD oil rather than crap. I started when I got my vmax hpdi outboard using shell green-bottle marine oil, its good oil, no stink, no smoke. Had to add and was on a lake where there was nothing for less than $50 a gal, so I borrowed a gal of mercury semi-synth... CRAP, makes it hard to start. Now I've got this CHEAP stuff in it, starts fine, runs great, but smoky and stinky. When I run that out, I'm going back to shell and staying there.
Noise? Sure Mercury and Bombardier (that means evinrude and johnson) are LOUD, but not a vmax. I hear the wind more than the motor at any speed up to 70 mph and can have a comfortable conversation with passengers without having to *speak loudly*.
Smooth? Feels damned near electric smooth.
That being said... I bought the thing before there was a 4-stroke available in the size range I needed... If I was buying now... damn. No idea. I guess it would come down to price. Hopefully there would be a more than $10 price difference to decide for me... though I really like the 2-stroke oil convienence. Oh yeah... one other thing. You don't have to "dispose of" 2-stroke oil... <BFG>
LazyBastard
TY 4 Stroke God
RX-1 Liter said:
They probably won't. It is and has for a very long time been well within Yam's capacity, but imagine running down a lake on a 215 hp PWC and hitting a 1" ripple caused by some kid jumping into the water.... Its also unlikely that anyone with a 215 will be able to get insurance, and they are sure to be outlawed in most places.
JDKRXW
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
LazyBastard said:
LB, your HPDI is the quitest of the all of big the two strokes, but..... it isn't even on the same LAKE as the new Honda, Yamaha (and probably Verado too) 200+ four strokes. I've ridden all of them.
The Honda is so quited they are now advertising how quite the GEARCASE is.
LazyBastard
TY 4 Stroke God
What I was actually saying is that noise isn't a consideration. I don't give a rats #*$&@ if its any quieter since its quiet enough and actually sounds very sweet. Some of the 4-strokes may be quieter, but so what?
Quiet gearcase? It would have to be a pretty damned loud gearcase to start with to be worth mentioning, it would take a lot of noise to overcome the splashy sounds of the water around it.... unless its the hydrodynamics that they're streamlining to make it quiet? I looked on the honda website and didn't see any mention of a quiet gearcase.
Quiet gearcase? It would have to be a pretty damned loud gearcase to start with to be worth mentioning, it would take a lot of noise to overcome the splashy sounds of the water around it.... unless its the hydrodynamics that they're streamlining to make it quiet? I looked on the honda website and didn't see any mention of a quiet gearcase.
LazyBastard
TY 4 Stroke God
I just checked the sound numbers for the yamaha HPDI and 4-strokes, and the 4-strokes are BARELY quieter.
Since there's no 4-stroke 175 (like mine), I've got the 4-150 AND 4-200 to compare with. 4-175 should theoretically be between them...
RPM--4-150---4-200---2-175
1k----59-------61-------67
2k----69-------70-------74
3k----75-------77-------80
4k----80-------82-------86
5k----84-------85-------89
5.5k--85-------87-------88
Pretty close, huh? Only 3db louder than a 4-stroke 150 @ 5500 RPM.
Since there's no 4-stroke 175 (like mine), I've got the 4-150 AND 4-200 to compare with. 4-175 should theoretically be between them...
RPM--4-150---4-200---2-175
1k----59-------61-------67
2k----69-------70-------74
3k----75-------77-------80
4k----80-------82-------86
5k----84-------85-------89
5.5k--85-------87-------88
Pretty close, huh? Only 3db louder than a 4-stroke 150 @ 5500 RPM.
BLACK RX1
Extreme
LazyBastard said:
hey LB if you are in my area sometime you can try mine when i get broke in it is a blast
Frostbite
TY 4 Stroke God
LB, I certainly am not trying to start the urinary olympics by any means and I may be mistaken but, when dealing with decibel readings the way I understand it is since decibels are measured on a logarithmic scale; A 3 db increase in a sound level more or less equals a doubling of the actual perceptible sound heard by the human ear.
If that holds true (and it may not) your HDPI motor COULD actually be over twice as loud to the human ear as the fourstrokes listed in your comparison.
I thought I had better back up my data. Here's a quote from Boston gear- for engineers-by engineers web site linked below. The last sentence is of particular interest.
Practical Use of Decibel Meters:
Noise levels produced by a single machine in a relatively quiet environment (no background noise) can be recorded via the hand held decibel meter. This is a straight forward measurement and value.
The real question that comes into play is when you have multiple pieces of equipment running, how do you determine which is producing the loudest noise or if other background noise is present?
So if we don’t have the specialized equipment available to evaluate the noise condition, how will taking a decibel reading help you in your initial troubleshooting exercise?
By using the hand held decibel meter you can rule out surrounding noise from other pieces of equipment if you apply the following logarithm. Logarithmic scales are used to define normally large values into a smaller scale, thus preventing huge long numbers.
For every 3 dB increase in sound level, this doubles the perceived sound for humans.
http://bostongear.com/training/torque11-03.html
Don't get me wrong. After all I'm a mountain guy. I'd LOVE to see a Yamaha HDPI 900 twin in a real mountain chassis but perhaps Yamaha's crystal ball is just a bit better than those who appear to lavish clinging to the past.
Have a good one. PB
If that holds true (and it may not) your HDPI motor COULD actually be over twice as loud to the human ear as the fourstrokes listed in your comparison.
I thought I had better back up my data. Here's a quote from Boston gear- for engineers-by engineers web site linked below. The last sentence is of particular interest.
Practical Use of Decibel Meters:
Noise levels produced by a single machine in a relatively quiet environment (no background noise) can be recorded via the hand held decibel meter. This is a straight forward measurement and value.
The real question that comes into play is when you have multiple pieces of equipment running, how do you determine which is producing the loudest noise or if other background noise is present?
So if we don’t have the specialized equipment available to evaluate the noise condition, how will taking a decibel reading help you in your initial troubleshooting exercise?
By using the hand held decibel meter you can rule out surrounding noise from other pieces of equipment if you apply the following logarithm. Logarithmic scales are used to define normally large values into a smaller scale, thus preventing huge long numbers.
For every 3 dB increase in sound level, this doubles the perceived sound for humans.
http://bostongear.com/training/torque11-03.html
Don't get me wrong. After all I'm a mountain guy. I'd LOVE to see a Yamaha HDPI 900 twin in a real mountain chassis but perhaps Yamaha's crystal ball is just a bit better than those who appear to lavish clinging to the past.
Have a good one. PB
JDKRXW
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
LB, did you ever hear one of those old (70's up to about 1990 OMC's 'howling' accross the lake on a calm night? Most of that howl is the gearcase.
LazyBastard
TY 4 Stroke God
Yeah, but you're talking about an OMC, LOL.
LazyBastard
TY 4 Stroke God
Don't forget that the 4-strokes spin faster than 2-strokes. That puts the sound level right in line, and depending on how you prop the engine, it can actually make the 2-stroke QUIETER while still being within recommended range.
Similar threads
