Swiss Sledder
TY 4 Stroke God
That is a quality post from Alatalo and consistent with my Attak experiences.
ahicks
TY 4 Stroke Master
<<<There are truly too many variables from one rider to the next when it comes to set up and riding style.>>>
Rookie Yammie rider here, coming off of many years on Polaris to purchase an '07 RTX. I agree with Nate on the above - big time. Same arguments 121" vs. 136" in the Polaris camp. I'm probably best described as a very aggressive rider when it comes to hard play in the twisties and bumps. Ride mostly trail. My take on the 136" is that it does not like getting sidways in the corners (sprint car style) like many that ride 121's enjoy. Assuming you have them set so they won't push, the 136's feel overstudded/tight/stuck to trail/like they're going to high side when pushed really hard into a corner. Other than that, the 136 can be set same or better than 121 in any situation.
From my Polaris experience, I would also agree with Nate regarding his setup priorities. Get the sag/ride height set first, then set the shock so you aren't bottoming out all the time. After that, spend the next few rides working on getting the thing to go where you tell it to. You could spend an entire season messing around without some kind of order in doing what you are trying to accomplish. FWIW -Al
Rookie Yammie rider here, coming off of many years on Polaris to purchase an '07 RTX. I agree with Nate on the above - big time. Same arguments 121" vs. 136" in the Polaris camp. I'm probably best described as a very aggressive rider when it comes to hard play in the twisties and bumps. Ride mostly trail. My take on the 136" is that it does not like getting sidways in the corners (sprint car style) like many that ride 121's enjoy. Assuming you have them set so they won't push, the 136's feel overstudded/tight/stuck to trail/like they're going to high side when pushed really hard into a corner. Other than that, the 136 can be set same or better than 121 in any situation.
From my Polaris experience, I would also agree with Nate regarding his setup priorities. Get the sag/ride height set first, then set the shock so you aren't bottoming out all the time. After that, spend the next few rides working on getting the thing to go where you tell it to. You could spend an entire season messing around without some kind of order in doing what you are trying to accomplish. FWIW -Al
Alatalo
TY 4 Stroke Master
ahicks said:
I can not say that I agree, but I guess everybody has got different setups, riding styles and preferences.
After spending two seasons on the 136" Attak, I am convinced that 136" is a better track length for a rough trail sled.
Compared to my previous 121" sleds, I have noticed slightly better traction (=allowing slightly less weight transfer to avoid pushing or inside ski lift out of corners) and slightly better comfort when both sleds are set up to the same shock absorber performance (=bottoming resistance).
Coming from couple of 121" sleds, I was expecting a slower steering sled, a sled that I would really have to muscle around to get in and out of the corners and a sled unwilling to slide sideways. After two seasons I can not really say that any of these expectations became true. After being set up correct, my Attak cornered no better no worse than any of my previous 121" sleds or any of the 121" sleds that I usually ride together with.
Because of this I am considering to stretch my coming FX Nytro to 136" as soon as I get it.
ahicks
TY 4 Stroke Master
Alatalo -
So you're saying you can ride a 136" sideways (sprint car style) through a corner on a reliable basis, turn after turn? I'm big enough to do it on occasion using a ton of power, but I would never just stuff a 136 into a corner I'm not familiar with like I might with a 121" using a slide to control speed and direction.
When it comes to ride, traction, other issues, I already said I thought the 136" was as good or better. No argument.
So you're saying you can ride a 136" sideways (sprint car style) through a corner on a reliable basis, turn after turn? I'm big enough to do it on occasion using a ton of power, but I would never just stuff a 136 into a corner I'm not familiar with like I might with a 121" using a slide to control speed and direction.
When it comes to ride, traction, other issues, I already said I thought the 136" was as good or better. No argument.
Alatalo
TY 4 Stroke Master
ahicks said:
Yes, I do not see a problem with that...?
A riding style based on sliding through corners is frequently used around here, at least in tight corners and as long as the corners are not too bumpy. I am not familiar with the sliding method used in sprint car racing, because of this I would rather call the style "WRC-car like".
The way my 136" is setup, with non-studded Intense 1.5", brake sliding into a corner or throttle sliding out of a corner is not very different to any 121" that I have owned. I can not say that the 136" requires much more effort and I can not say that it is more difficult to control.
I would say that the ability to slide depends much more on the trail conditions than the difference 121" vs. 136". Very soft trails with lots of powder = near impossible to slide any sled, and if you slide it - be careful not to make a high-side. Hardpack trails or icy trails = be careful with the throttle not to spin the sled.
But again, this is just my personal opinion. Other riders have got their own experiences.
ahicks said:
You should have seen me with my 162"x1" lug throw it in the corners ask ViperDave,lol
TallCool 1
Veteran
Alatalo said:
Very nicely put! Most people do not want to believe me when I tell them this. To me, some of the anti-136" thoughts are very similar to the mentality guys have/had that a 4-stroke snowmobile would never work. Yamaha has definitely proved them wrong, and if a guy would take the time to set up a 136" sled, he would prove the naysayers wrong. He would see for himself the longer track can only be a benefit on the trails (and powder, lol).
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You're right Ryan!! I was trying to not crowd you and ..WHOOOSH.. you weren't there to crowd LOL. This debate has been argued MANY times!! If you have an opportunity to ride a 136" do it. Ryan was WAILING down a tight twisty trail on a 162. His sled SHOULD NOT have been able to runaway from my Attak. But HE did. Getting the point? Setup AND ability are crucial to percieved performance. Could I go as fast as he did on his sled? NOPE!! Not trying to be a arguementative, just stating my observations and opinions!!
Dave
Dave
ahicks
TY 4 Stroke Master
<<<To me, some of the anti-136" thoughts are very similar to the mentality guys have/had that a 4-stroke snowmobile would never work. Yamaha has definitely proved them wrong, and if a guy would take the time to set up a 136" sled, he would prove the naysayers wrong. He would see for himself the longer track can only be a benefit on the trails (and powder, lol).>>>
TallCool1 - Let's not be too quick to judge...... I mentioned that I was new to Yamaha (also TY), and my recent (limited) experience with Yamaha is with an RTX w/Proactive suspension (very similar to the Edge). Also that what I was stating was my own take on the 121 vs. 136". But that said, I have over 5000 miles of XCR with 136" Edge suspension experience to base my opinion on. This run consecutively with a very comparable XC800 Edge 121 with an additional 6000 miles run when not on the XCR. Very often getting off of one to get on the other to go back over what I had just gone through to get duplicate conditions. My purpose for owning the 136 was to see if it could be made to work in the corners - to my satisfaction. My opinion - it couldn't. It has too much traction for the loose feel my riding style demands (even unstudded). Not exactly running a mentality indicating it won't work. Should be fairly apparent I spent a lot of time and money trying to do just the opposite. FWIW
Do I know how to set up a suspension? From the TY sled garage -
http://ty4stroke.com/posting.php?mode=quote&p=334148
"Check out this link in HCS, jbshocks and michachicks seem to really know thier stuff."
michahicks is mispelled, but that's me. -Al
TallCool1 - Let's not be too quick to judge...... I mentioned that I was new to Yamaha (also TY), and my recent (limited) experience with Yamaha is with an RTX w/Proactive suspension (very similar to the Edge). Also that what I was stating was my own take on the 121 vs. 136". But that said, I have over 5000 miles of XCR with 136" Edge suspension experience to base my opinion on. This run consecutively with a very comparable XC800 Edge 121 with an additional 6000 miles run when not on the XCR. Very often getting off of one to get on the other to go back over what I had just gone through to get duplicate conditions. My purpose for owning the 136 was to see if it could be made to work in the corners - to my satisfaction. My opinion - it couldn't. It has too much traction for the loose feel my riding style demands (even unstudded). Not exactly running a mentality indicating it won't work. Should be fairly apparent I spent a lot of time and money trying to do just the opposite. FWIW
Do I know how to set up a suspension? From the TY sled garage -
http://ty4stroke.com/posting.php?mode=quote&p=334148
"Check out this link in HCS, jbshocks and michachicks seem to really know thier stuff."
michahicks is mispelled, but that's me. -Al
TallCool 1
Veteran
ahicks said:
Hey Al! No judging of anyone in particular here, just a general thought. I guess what I'm trying to get across to those looking for info is that you can pretty much do with a 136" what you can do with a 121", and then some. I'm on my second one, and if I didn't like it, I wouldn't keep doing it to my sleds. It's just not always as simple has hopping on and taking off though, when you're used to a shorter sled. A perfect example is a friend in our group bought an Attak a year ago, rode it one or two trips, and got rid of it because "it pushed." He got rid of the sled so fast that I didn't even have an opportunity to buy it from him. I was actually pretty mad at him for not taking the time to set it up, or letting me try, lol.
How are you coming on the parts for your sled?
ahicks
TY 4 Stroke Master
TallCool1
It's not just about pushing, you can get past that easy enough. It's what happens when you get past the pushing. When a sled is stuffed into a corner, generally one end or the other will break loose/loose traction. If we take away the possibility of that end being the front (because it's no longer pushing), that leaves the back end to break loose (the desirable option in my book), causing a simple spinout.
What my experience has been, is that with the 136", the back doesn't necessarily want to break loose (that's why everyone likes them, lot's of traction, right?). Now what? Front end is railing, back end is stuck down, what's that leave for possibilities when this sled enters a corner a little too fast? Have never been able to get past right here. Not on a reliable basis, anyway.
I found a dealer willing to sell parts at a discount because of the size of the order and the fact that he'll be given a list of part numbers and a pre paid order. All he has to do is send in the order and ship the parts when they come in. Still hoping to find somebody piecing one out. Thanks for asking. -Al
It's not just about pushing, you can get past that easy enough. It's what happens when you get past the pushing. When a sled is stuffed into a corner, generally one end or the other will break loose/loose traction. If we take away the possibility of that end being the front (because it's no longer pushing), that leaves the back end to break loose (the desirable option in my book), causing a simple spinout.
What my experience has been, is that with the 136", the back doesn't necessarily want to break loose (that's why everyone likes them, lot's of traction, right?). Now what? Front end is railing, back end is stuck down, what's that leave for possibilities when this sled enters a corner a little too fast? Have never been able to get past right here. Not on a reliable basis, anyway.
I found a dealer willing to sell parts at a discount because of the size of the order and the fact that he'll be given a list of part numbers and a pre paid order. All he has to do is send in the order and ship the parts when they come in. Still hoping to find somebody piecing one out. Thanks for asking. -Al
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