TBay Sledhead
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So Why would he compare the belt adjustment between 2 different makes of sleds? When Yamaha spec calls for 0.02" below to 0.06" above.
I was just pointing out that yamaha IS different than most other brands to my knowledge(at least non-currnt stuff), and that all the above post about getting more belt deflection ARE correct. Somtimes it is hard to teach an old dog new tricks, but this needs to be followed by the book from yami to obtain proper results.
Blue Dave
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For info and pictures on the shimming of the secondary click on this link and scroll all the way down to see my posts.
http://www.ty4stroke.com/viewtopic.php?t=115578&start=0
http://www.ty4stroke.com/viewtopic.php?t=115578&start=0
titanrcr
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Keep in mind it may be that the clutch center to center distance might not be correct causing the same issue. Clutch alignment should be checked.
Blue Dave
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titanrcr said:
Possible but unlikely IMO. I think that these 4 stroke motors are mounted pretty solid.
Fusion
Expert
Timely thread considering I developed a "belt squeal" on the 2011 Vector last weekend - but only at 5 - 20 MPH, just starting off after engagement.
Sled around 900 miles, with belt about 1/16 - 2/16 worn from new. Belt seems to sit low in the secondary but I didn't check it on the stand yet.
Question I have is, how easy is it to remove the secondary?
I am going to try the soap and water on the belt and lightly scuffing the sheaves, but ultimately I think it will need shims. Seems easy enough to do if you can remove the secondary.
Sled around 900 miles, with belt about 1/16 - 2/16 worn from new. Belt seems to sit low in the secondary but I didn't check it on the stand yet.
Question I have is, how easy is it to remove the secondary?
I am going to try the soap and water on the belt and lightly scuffing the sheaves, but ultimately I think it will need shims. Seems easy enough to do if you can remove the secondary.
rupprider
Expert
Take retainer bolt out of the jackshaft end by the secondary clutch, and pull off the clutch sheave. NOTE the position of the various thickness washers/spacers on either side of the clutch. see the pics in above post.
ps. you had eleven sleds and never took off a secondry clutch?
ps. you had eleven sleds and never took off a secondry clutch?
Fusion
Expert
Only one time did I take off a secondary - nearly 20 years ago when I had that piece of garbage Thundercat.
I don't wrench my sleds, that's why they make dealers that employee mechanics.
And prior to owning Yamaha's I traded something about every other year.
I don't wrench my sleds, that's why they make dealers that employee mechanics.
And prior to owning Yamaha's I traded something about every other year.
rupprider
Expert
Rode with guy with a Thundercat years ago Always wrenchin'. 
Fusion
Expert
Can someone post a pic or describe exact location of the bolt on the jack shaft I have to loosen to remove the secondary sheaves?
If not, no biggie - I'll just take it to the dealer - AGAIN.
TIA
If not, no biggie - I'll just take it to the dealer - AGAIN.
TIA
nate007
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Fusion,
Its the big bolt, right in the middle going into the jackshaft.
There are probably going to be a couple washers behind it that you'll want to make sure you keep track of, as this is what adjusts the secondary clutches side to side or "floating" adjustment.
Most of you guys are correct with your adjustments on the secondary clutch with the shims, but to simplify things for the people wanting to know:
The shims behind the three bolts on the secondary are for adjusting the height of the belt in the secondary. As long as you are staying consistant with using the same belt each time, you SHOULDN'T have to mess with that.
The height of the belt in the secondary will make the belt squeal at idle if it's too high, but there was quite a bit of discussion here a few seasons ago about alot of belt squeal issues, which turned out to be a very slight change in belts from Yamaha. The old 8DN's had a slightly different width that the new "batch" and it was causing the belts to sit higher in the secondary, and dragging in the primaries. If this is happening due to a belt swap, start simple and compare the lenght and width to the old one. The differences will be almost too small to notice, so try laying them on a flat surface side by side and check the carefully before messing with shims!!
The belt height adjustment in the secondary is similar to the sprockets on a multi-speed pedal bike, only with more precision. If the belt sits too high or too low in the secondary, it "can" cause changes in the engagement speed, and the points where it shifts out to full speed, etc. It's important not only for the ratios, but the forces applied to each clutch during operation to keep them "balanced" as designed.
Having a belt that isn't set up properly can cause uneven wear in the sheaves due to one clutch applying too much or too little pressure at any given load.
If youre having trouble getting the secondary sheaves to shift out fully, or you think youre having this issue, the best way I've found/learned to check this is with a crayon. Draw a line on the secondary and primary sheaves from the center all the way to the outside (smallest to boggest diameter) of all the sheaves. Go ride it, and try to ride it gently through all the rpm ranges. Check to see if the crayon mark has disappeared along the complete diameter change on all the sheaves. If the line is still visible at the bottom of the secondary, note the locations of the secondary spring (photos work best) and remove the three bolts holding the helix on and vary carefully take the spring wrap off of the secondary. (after removing the large center bolt first, of course)
From there, the secondary sheaves will come apart, and you will need to check the center shaft and helix rub points for uneven wear and/or scoring.
I'm sure my method is debatable depending on who you talk to, but my view is that if you can't remove any of the scoring or wear marks with a RED Scotch Brite pad, replace the affected parts. Most will agree not to use any lube on clutch parts, but I have used a mild soap and water or electrical contact cleaner to clean the sheaves, and ONLY a dry graphite lube very sparingly on just the wear points. Use something similar to what you would use in an automobile door lock and you should be fine, but don't make a mess with it or you'll have to start over with cleaning.
9 out of 10 times, it's either the belt dimentions that vary or scoring/wear on the clutch shafts that causes your issues.
As far as reverse - If the belt is squealing in the primary at idle, it is likely still applying just enough pressure through the chaincase to not allow the reverse synchro to engage. If you've solved the belt squeal issue first, and the reverse still doesnt engage properly, then check/adjust the linkage. There is very little movement in the linkage, so a very slight ammount of slop in a pivot bolt, or wear in the heim ends will cause issues. Check for loose pivot bolts and/or slop in the heims and if any is noted, start with 1/2 turn at a time on one of the linkage rods until you've got it working again.
Its the big bolt, right in the middle going into the jackshaft.
There are probably going to be a couple washers behind it that you'll want to make sure you keep track of, as this is what adjusts the secondary clutches side to side or "floating" adjustment.
Most of you guys are correct with your adjustments on the secondary clutch with the shims, but to simplify things for the people wanting to know:
The shims behind the three bolts on the secondary are for adjusting the height of the belt in the secondary. As long as you are staying consistant with using the same belt each time, you SHOULDN'T have to mess with that.
The height of the belt in the secondary will make the belt squeal at idle if it's too high, but there was quite a bit of discussion here a few seasons ago about alot of belt squeal issues, which turned out to be a very slight change in belts from Yamaha. The old 8DN's had a slightly different width that the new "batch" and it was causing the belts to sit higher in the secondary, and dragging in the primaries. If this is happening due to a belt swap, start simple and compare the lenght and width to the old one. The differences will be almost too small to notice, so try laying them on a flat surface side by side and check the carefully before messing with shims!!
The belt height adjustment in the secondary is similar to the sprockets on a multi-speed pedal bike, only with more precision. If the belt sits too high or too low in the secondary, it "can" cause changes in the engagement speed, and the points where it shifts out to full speed, etc. It's important not only for the ratios, but the forces applied to each clutch during operation to keep them "balanced" as designed.
Having a belt that isn't set up properly can cause uneven wear in the sheaves due to one clutch applying too much or too little pressure at any given load.
If youre having trouble getting the secondary sheaves to shift out fully, or you think youre having this issue, the best way I've found/learned to check this is with a crayon. Draw a line on the secondary and primary sheaves from the center all the way to the outside (smallest to boggest diameter) of all the sheaves. Go ride it, and try to ride it gently through all the rpm ranges. Check to see if the crayon mark has disappeared along the complete diameter change on all the sheaves. If the line is still visible at the bottom of the secondary, note the locations of the secondary spring (photos work best) and remove the three bolts holding the helix on and vary carefully take the spring wrap off of the secondary. (after removing the large center bolt first, of course)
From there, the secondary sheaves will come apart, and you will need to check the center shaft and helix rub points for uneven wear and/or scoring.
I'm sure my method is debatable depending on who you talk to, but my view is that if you can't remove any of the scoring or wear marks with a RED Scotch Brite pad, replace the affected parts. Most will agree not to use any lube on clutch parts, but I have used a mild soap and water or electrical contact cleaner to clean the sheaves, and ONLY a dry graphite lube very sparingly on just the wear points. Use something similar to what you would use in an automobile door lock and you should be fine, but don't make a mess with it or you'll have to start over with cleaning.
9 out of 10 times, it's either the belt dimentions that vary or scoring/wear on the clutch shafts that causes your issues.
As far as reverse - If the belt is squealing in the primary at idle, it is likely still applying just enough pressure through the chaincase to not allow the reverse synchro to engage. If you've solved the belt squeal issue first, and the reverse still doesnt engage properly, then check/adjust the linkage. There is very little movement in the linkage, so a very slight ammount of slop in a pivot bolt, or wear in the heim ends will cause issues. Check for loose pivot bolts and/or slop in the heims and if any is noted, start with 1/2 turn at a time on one of the linkage rods until you've got it working again.
Fusion
Expert
Nate.... excellent write-up. Thanks for all the info.
I guess now I'm leaning toward just popping the belt off, cleaning with soap and water, drying it with a blow dryer, and scotch bright the sheaves to remove any unwanted slipping agents to get better grab.
Clearly my belt has "some" wear, (minimal - about a 1/16 to 2/16th's) as I have compared it to a new belt and I believe I could eliminate my problem with a new belt.
But I don't want to do that with a belt that has only about 900 miles on it, so I'll work with that one for awhile.
I guess now I'm leaning toward just popping the belt off, cleaning with soap and water, drying it with a blow dryer, and scotch bright the sheaves to remove any unwanted slipping agents to get better grab.
Clearly my belt has "some" wear, (minimal - about a 1/16 to 2/16th's) as I have compared it to a new belt and I believe I could eliminate my problem with a new belt.
But I don't want to do that with a belt that has only about 900 miles on it, so I'll work with that one for awhile.
