Best Clutch Kit for Sidewinder

[@123]

That helix should work.... I have not tried it yet, but the stock helix working great this one is not far off. This setup should help keep the belt high and the revs up.
Most of my testing is hard pack snow too, this setup will shine in softer snow and still perform great on hard pack.

The helixes I have tried that showed marginal gains in some areas but in general were not quite as good as stock for a high performance trail machine were 45/33 41/35 46/32

witch one as the better holeshot?

 

[jetpilot785]

Congrats on picking up your new SW L-TX LE. It sounds like you've done some home work on clutching, and I'm sure that you'll get a lot of action on this thread.

It might help if you post up what area's of improvement you're looking for and the conditions that you ride in to get the best responses.

Most of the kits that you mentioned are all great options with a lot of tuning possibilities.

Thanks brother! I actually bought 2 sleds but I will set them up the same so Im just trying to get opinions and ideas of what these sleds will like for spirited trail riding on varying conditions. I putting the new storm 150 track on both sleds with 192 studs double backed down the middle with 1/4-3/8" penetration. Most of my riding is between 30-90 mph with some occasional bursts when I have the room so looking for something that pulls hard and smooth throughout the entire powerband with respectable top end. Doesn't have to be the absolute fastest top end if low and midrange suffer too much. I'm coming off vipers with the D&D Magnaforce weights and helix with the Ulmer secondary machining and red spring and after some playing with it, I found it to be a decent kit with a good range of options for tunability and it was easy to make changes trail side during rest stops. Not sure what these things will need and as I mentioned in a previous response, I don't know if I can get away with just weights, spring and weights, helix, torsion spring or a combination of things. I'm trying to avoid the dreaded belt blowing issues and I'm not sure if its related to overshift and belt stretch from poor stock clutching, improper belt break in, improper operation of the machine, belt duraometer causing heat issues, torsion pressure etc. Just trying to set these up the best i can to hopefully eliminate as many issues as I can. I will also be putting in rollers and I will have to research to see which ones to put in.

 

[jetpilot785]

Too much info is worse than not enough...
I feel sometimes people get pryed in all kinds of directions by many different opinions on forums.

As for my setup:
For video proof, here's a customer's trail sidewinder racing a big hill drag event and taking 1st place in the Trail Open class.
With TD max 17 ecu reflash, TD dalton weights, stock secondary...

And also a video of my sled doing radar with the dalton weights and stock secondary... a sled with well above 150mph top speed !

I haven't researched the tunes yet but if I did get a tune, I would like to keep the stock exhaust as they are really tough in my state about the noise. I wouldn't mind a muffler if it was as quiet or very close to but they do look under the hoods so to speak and if they see something they deam is modified, they ticket. Plus I want to be courteous to the land owners and what not and not be "that guy" that gets the trails shut down for loud #*$&@ fart cans. Is that max 17 tune 91-93 pump gas and stock exhaust friendly?

 

[jetpilot785]

I also understand weight profile affects the clutches characteristics and was curious as to what the different companies have and what their profiles were geared towards i:e: drag racing, speed running, trail performance with better low/mid or mid/high targeting etc. Im looking for more a lower engagement that's strong but smooth and pull like a freight train all the way up with decent top end. It doesn't have to be the fastest one out there but it needs to be faster than my vipers were lol. Shouldn't be hard to do. My viper averaged 85-90mph on hard pack with a best of 96 and a best of 101 on ice. I would be happy with a 100-105 on hard pack avg maybe with a 110+ best and whatever it is on ice it is as I don't ride on or car about ice much. We just happen to find plowed ice the one day and that's how I found out what the viper had and it labored to get that 101 lol.

 

[swrtxlr]

I add washers between cover and helix. Some machine the pocket but I don't. I've maxed my gears often without issues.

There is always more pressure on some rollers. Usually one is tight, the other touches, the last one slightly off the ramp. some sleds are worse...
Mine in one of the better ones I've seen.

Good to know, thanks again for all your hard work and info I will be ordering the power trail package soon

 

[actionjack]

Ulmer uses STMs which will cover a huge range of Rpms(tunes).....That is why Im going to start with STM weights myself, so I can run them stock to 280hp. Allen used these in "kit"form with great notes for when power is added. https://totallyamaha.com/PDF/Sidewinder Clutching.pdf

Out back the 33/35 helix and dalton or TP new torsional sec springs will do well.

Dan

Interesting info in the pdf. Not much change (none) until high boost levels or 3" exhaust.

 

[Turbo Dynamics]

Not looking to win drag races or speed run. Looking for a solid kit for spirited trail riding with varying conditions so thats why I'm looking for something that has some decent tunability ranges for those changing conditions. Im also not sure what these things need as far as clutching whether you just need primary weights/spring, helix and secondary spring, combination of both. I am trying to avoid blowing belts for a living and with all the companies and possibilities available, I wanted to see who ran what and what kind of results/luck they had with it.

The daltons are excellent trail performance weights. But I wanted to show they can win races too. that said I prefer the STM for racers or serious tuners.
The Daltons are just easier to use and have a great curve that puts down a lot more Track HP than stock profile weights. I have personally tested this on my track dyno. And it shows in real life testing as well.
Most high performance trail sleds we use the stiffer black/green primary spring for a slightly higher engagement for better starts on the SW.

 

[jetpilot785]

The daltons are excellent trail performance weights. But I wanted to show they can win races too. that said I prefer the STM for racers or serious tuners.
The Daltons are just easier to use and have a great curve that puts down a lot more Track HP than stock profile weights. I have personally tested this on my track dyno. And it shows in real life testing as well.
Most high performance trail sleds we use the stiffer black/green primary spring for a slightly higher engagement for better starts on the SW.

Thanks for the info. After some reading on some other sites and checking out your website, I may be leaning towards the daltons for easier tuning and I'm not looking to constantly change and hunt for the perfect setup, I just want something that performs well and has some range of adjustability. I'm also contemplating going with one of your trail flashes. The eco trail tune looks nice and mild enough where it's not running the engine on the ragged edge on pump gas. Not sure how it affects warranty or if I need to have a second stock ecu for that purpose if something should happen. What are your thoughts?

 

[stevewithOCD]

MY 2 CENTS. Wait until mid-January then make same post. Soooo many new clutch choices & set-ups being tried this year including Ben @ TD. Somebody will ride your style area, your style of riding & have your budget. This way other people spend all the money & time while you sit back & figure out your own sled IF you even want to make changes. MY 2 CENTS...

 

[jetpilot785]

MY 2 CENTS. Wait until mid-January then make same post. Soooo many new clutch choices & set-ups being tried this year including Ben @ TD. Somebody will ride your style area, your style of riding & have your budget. This way other people spend all the money & time while you sit back & figure out your own sled IF you even want to make changes. MY 2 CENTS...

That's also good advice as I thought I would leave it stock for now and see what I like and don't like about it but from my experience, I've clutched every sled I ever owned as the stock clutching always lacked somewhere as they clutch them as a baseline for the general public but they usually do ok so I was looking for something with some tunability so I can tweak it to my liking. Honestly, there will be a bunch of guys/companies trying new things and doing this and that and there will be subtle differences between setups but in general, I bet guys like Turbo Dynamics, OSP, Ulmer etc have figured out what the sled will and won't respond to and I'm sure they will refine what they have but as far as a whole new kit that just makes the sled unbelievable over what they've tested already since that is their bread and butter, I just don't see happening so I'm sure what those guys offer now will be fine for me. The days of wrenching week in and week out to find the next best thing are over for me. I did that for years working for HTG Racing and I spent hundreds of hours and thousands of dollars on various sleds from various brands finding good pipe, jetting and clutching combos for our various packages we offered so now I'm good with a good aftermarket kit that I can tweak and just ride. Coming off a stock viper with a D&D clutch kit, I'm sure the stock Sidewinder with a clutch kit will feel awesome.

 

[krm]

That's also good advice as I thought I would leave it stock for now and see what I like and don't like about it but from my experience, I've clutched every sled I ever owned as the stock clutching always lacked somewhere as they clutch them as a baseline for the general public but they usually do ok so I was looking for something with some tunability so I can tweak it to my liking. Honestly, there will be a bunch of guys/companies trying new things and doing this and that and there will be subtle differences between setups but in general, I bet guys like Turbo Dynamics, OSP, Ulmer etc have figured out what the sled will and won't respond to and I'm sure they will refine what they have but as far as a whole new kit that just makes the sled unbelievable over what they've tested already since that is their bread and butter, I just don't see happening so I'm sure what those guys offer now will be fine for me. The days of wrenching week in and week out to find the next best thing are over for me. I did that for years working for HTG Racing and I spent hundreds of hours and thousands of dollars on various sleds from various brands finding good pipe, jetting and clutching combos for our various packages we offered so now I'm good with a good aftermarket kit that I can tweak and just ride. Coming off a stock viper with a D&D clutch kit, I'm sure the stock Sidewinder with a clutch kit will feel awesome.

Look at the stk ramps they;re almost straight ,and that's how it shifts ,Flat .The aftermarket kits are night and day different from stk ,like going from a non boosted 4cyl car to a boosted 4cyl car .Also ,where's Rob S at these days ??

 

[XP123]

Look at the stk ramps they;re almost straight ,and that's how it shifts ,Flat .The aftermarket kits are night and day different from stk ,like going from a non boosted 4cyl car to a boosted 4cyl car .Also ,where's Rob S at these days ??

I have the TP Venom kit and I'm looking forward to how it performs. I know you are happy with yours but then again I try not to listen to you too much.

 

[jetpilot785]

Look at the stk ramps they;re almost straight ,and that's how it shifts ,Flat .The aftermarket kits are night and day different from stk ,like going from a non boosted 4cyl car to a boosted 4cyl car .Also ,where's Rob S at these days ??

I agree with that. They usually put lame profiles in stock weights for the masses as they don't know who's riding it, where, how etc. What are you using for clutching? Do you have a reflash at all?

As far as Rob, he is doing side work on boats and some sleds and works part time at a local boat shop (excell marine I believe). I'm in law enforcement now and have been since 2005 but I donsode work on skis and sleds as well and I have Rob doing some machine work for me from time to time and he still has all his porting tools, boring bars, hone etc.

 

[ROCKERDAN]

I like the black/blue Dalton primary spring. Its a 53/133kg and is roughly 12mm shorter then the stock primary spring, combined with glide washers.

The issue with stock spring IMO is its the LONGEST Yammie spring made on their chart, its 110.1 mm in total length, and I believe this has a TON to do with why it gets so distorted in the "very un-harmonic" triple clutch. Pair that with no glide washers and under compression it cannot help but distort.

Stock gold/red/gold primary spring is a 55/105kg. There are other shorter springs on the chart as you can see, and many of them will help with bind. It seems many of the "kit" tuners are using a low engagement spring around 35kg. They are combining them with weights with much more curve, and less overal weight. I tend to like the initial rpms higher with this sled, to get onto the boost sooner.

Gonna be fun season.

 

[XP123]

I like the black/blue Dalton primary spring. Its a 53/133kg and is roughly 12mm shorter then the stock primary spring, combined with glide washers.

The issue with stock spring IMO is its the LONGEST Yammie spring made on their chart, its 110.1 mm in total length, and I believe this has a TON to do with why it gets so distorted in the "very un-harmonic" triple clutch. Pair that with no glide washers and under compression it cannot help but distort.

Stock gold/red/gold primary spring is a 55/105kg. There are other shorter springs on the chart as you can see, and many of them will help with bind. It seems many of the "kit" tuners are using a low engagement spring around 35kg. They are combining them with weights with much more curve, and less overal weight. I tend to like the initial rpms higher with this sled, to get onto the boost sooner.

Gonna be fun season.



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Dan you need your sled in a bad way! All this homework you're doing and parts you're collecting is going to drive you nuts till your sled comes in. I think this Winter will be fun and I have a feeling it will be a good year like we had in 2015. Keep your fingers crossed!