Building a small formula one style car with a Genesis 80FI

[Scotty G]

Thanks alot RJH,

We've put some good thought into our design, but we've had some issues determining where exactly we would place the intake. I'll pass along your insightful words.

Luckly with the cvt, we can just change the springs on the cvt to reduce our gears. Snowmobile engines produce alot of torque, that won't necessarily provide us with much except a good smoke show. My drivetrain team is cooking up something to fix that...

How do you feel about a diff coming off a atv?......any suggestions?

 

[RJH]

There’s a plan use the engine CVT and differential from an ATV – complete - most of your work is already done.

Either way - you should replace the FI with a stock carb from an ATV - again – a late model ATV can be had with a carb and CTV.

If you have the ability to do computer generated models – you will find a plenum between one carb and engine with a restrictor after the carb will give you best performance. Do the work. I can see huge issues trying to get FI to work and trick the sensors.

Just change the spring – well – lets say it will probably run – but your belt and backshift will not be happy. Clutches work on balance with each other, not one individual component.

Using the clutch to gear will work but will result in poor efficiency. The clutch is very sensitive to gearing load. They are two separate entities.

Your best bet is the complete ATV system – but if you insist on sled clutching – then a good option would be the older Team Industries secondary. You can buy a ton of secondary angles and springs on eBay cheap. The Yamaha primary is fine – and can be tuned to work. We changed the spin axis on ours – but that’s about all I can say on that.

You can make the clutch not – burn the tires- like the bike I told you about earlier. It’s just tons of tuning time.

Will be interesting to watch your progress. You have the potential – to go fast – its there – it ain’t going to be easy.

 

[sortastock]

I would strongly discourage the use of carburation. Run the fuel injection that it came with. It might be a little more work at first, and you might have to run and find some EE's to talk to, but if you take a FI system off and install a carburator, you will get SLAUGHTERED by the judges. (The excuse "We couldn't figure it out, and besides this way is easy and more expensive" never works well in these competitions).

And when you are tuning the clutching system, don't use the clutches for a gear reduction. Let them shift all the way out to 1:1, like RJH said. I think you'll run into bogging issues. The only way to keep the clutch from shifting out is to overload the primary causing it to bog, or just cranking up the torsion spring in the secondary, which will screw up your upshift throughout the entire range. But you would have insane backshift.

What type of differential are you using? We MIGHT have a brand new Torsen lying around if you are looking for one.

Do you have a motor already? What does it way? I think F4i motors weigh around 140. We're running a KTM 525 single cylinder this year and it weighs about 65 pounds with intake installed. I would assume this motor would be in the 80 to 90 pound range?

Good Luck! I'm excited to see how this motor works. I've pretty much convinced myself that it's the best way to go. Even over the 6,000 dollar Aprillia, as you can't run a cvt on the aprillia.

 

[Scotty G]

Thanks for the info sortastock.

I am actually about to go into a meeting discussing the progress of our team with the dean of engineering.

We're working on getting an engine come in and it should weigh about 85-95 lbs....and you're totally right, though it would be nice to play with an aprilia...the genesis 80FI is going to be pretty competitive with the setup we have in mind.

Are you part of a team? if so, which one?

 

[sortastock]

Yeah, I'm a member of St Cloud State University's FSAE team. Are you guys going to be at the competition next weekend in Michigan?

What team are you on?

 

[Scotty G]

We're a new team that's going to be competing at the 2009 Formula West Competition.

Take part of University of British Columbia Okanagan FSAE

 

[sortastock]

Cool. Yeah this is our second car that we are building. It's such a huge task to establish something like this at a university AND build the car!

Have you tried to get in contact with Yamaha about these motors? We are planning on running one of them next year, but we're having a hell of a time finding any "real" information about them.

 

[Scotty G]

Ya it's a big task that's for sure.

We've done everything we possibly could to get info and the best way is to just get your hands on one and start testing it out ASAP....we're getting one in a matter of days now

 

[looking4speed]

On www.minibuggy.net there is a person who has installed that engine in 2 offroad cars. He likes them a lot. He might be able to help you with setup questions. Look for posts by Kfab. Good luck.

 

[Scotty G]

Thanks for the link, we'll definetly have to drop a line to these guys.

 

[Scotty G]

BIG UPDATE

SO it turns out my login stopped working and I had to get a new one...

It has been a while since I have posted anything on this link but here it goes.

Our team has acquired an engine and we are in the midst of rebuilding it.

Any questions or concerns, please don't hesitate to email me.