BUMP STEER IMPROVEMENT

[00-NUKE]

Thanks a lot Nuke!

I've read a lot about the JRE spindles as well, but also sceptical to the 2" drop of the front. Also, what I don't quite get is that some people on the JRE spindle threads are saying you get most of the travel back by increasing your front shocks preload, raising the sled. But how are you lowering the CoG if you drop the hight of the spindles but then stiffen up your suspension to raise the hight of the sled again...?

Anyway, interesting reading. I should probably not spend any money on my sled because I ride way too little to justify the upgrades

You are not lowering your center of gravity if that is the case, But you are keeping your current center of gravity low while adding suspension travel.

Breakdown.......

If you are riding with your springs loose already, that will lower your center of gravity. The problem is that your shocks are already partially compressed when you ride like this because your springs are too loose to hold them up. The compressed part of the shaft is already considered used suspension travel, so when you hit a bump all you have is the available unused compression space that is left to absorb the bump. By adding a lower spindle you are able to maintain the lower center of gravity with your springs tight. By tightening your springs, you are adding to your unused travel which gives you more when you need it.

The problem with having lower spindles is that when your front suspension is fully compressed, it reduces the amount of final clearance you have from your belly pan to the ground. With the JRE spindles, this final clearance is about 1/2".

NOTE: Riding with your shock springs loose will cause a large amount of "roll" in the corners as well.

 

[birkebeiner]

Aha, I see. Finally got it! Didn't think of the "half way" compressed suspension. Thanks for the explanation

I've been looking into the Hygear's triple rate springs. Do you think it's worth it or would you do spindles instead?

 

[AKrider]

So for a '09 and newer Nytro, the conclusion is; leave it stock or go for Skinz or the Yamaha racing front end? I.e. no gains to be made by the mods you tested in this thred?

The short answer is there is nothing you can do with your stock front end to make it handle as good as the other OEM sleds. Replacing parts is certainly an option and the options vary in cost. Basically the more you spend the more you will gain. I've not ridden the Skins front end but there are a lot of posts that claim it is a big improvement, mainly from mountain riders. Problem is, if you don't already have floats, it is a very expensive modification and test reports have not all been 100% satisfactory. There was an issue with the 1st generation ball joints breaking off last season and lots of debate as to if it was a real problem or just due to people hitting things. I don't care for the curved tie rod design the Skins front end uses but I can't say that I've read any posts about people bending the tie rods. Just seems to me that they'd be more susceptible to bending when you are reefing on a single ski trying to pull your sled around on a slope or out of a hole. The tie rods have to be curved because they won't clear the shocks otherwise.

The Yamaha race front end would be the way to go IMO. Various designs have been race tested over the years and the current generation has been proven to work well. If they'd just come out with it as a production part on the '14 Nytro's that would be the way I'd go. Than you could be fairly confident that replacement parts would be available for years to come. The race front end also requires shocks with spherical bearings top and bottom so if you have the stock piggy back Soqis, you'd need to buy different shocks. I think the Nytro would be a transformed sled with the race front end and the 128" track with the skid set back. If my IQR treats me bad again this season with engine issues I'll go back to a Yamaha and install the XC race kit mods.

 

[00-NUKE]

Aha, I see. Finally got it! Didn't think of the "half way" compressed suspension. Thanks for the explanation

I've been looking into the Hygear's triple rate springs. Do you think it's worth it or would you do spindles instead?

Tripple Rate Springs:
Tripple Rates are not the answer. I own the Tripple Rates and they are a great product, but IMO people have been using them for the wrong reasons. When using just the tripple rates, there is still a lot of "used" suspension travel to get the center of gravity down. People are using the softer spring of the progressive travel to lower the COG and the tighter springs to prevent some of the "roll" in the corners that you would get with the stock springs. Tripple rates are designed to handle a wide range of bumps and jumps. The main purpose of tripple rate springs was not to improve cornering.

Spindles:
I can not fully speak for any of the current spindles on the market yet. I have been working with a modified version of the stock spindle, much like JRE did at the beginning of his "JRE Yamaha Nytro Trail King Spindle kit" thread. I can say that my modified spindles made a significant improvement over stock when lowered. I just received a set of the SLP spindles yesterday and will be trying them out this year. I will give updates on these when the snow flies.

 

[00-NUKE]

READY FO SNOW!

 

[birkebeiner]

Let us know what you think of those SLP spindles

 

[AKrider]

Those spindles look good!

 

[00-NUKE]

Those spindles look good!

Thanks. Still waiting for snow.

 

[00-NUKE]

Handling Update

I've had a full season on the SLP's and here are some follow ups. As far as the SLP's go, They are a good spindle, but IMO, they could be better. SLP added "trail" to their spndles to help them track better in powder. However by moving the ski location back on the spindle, it increases the effort required to steer a little bit. When I first installed the SLP's the steering felt lighter, but pushed in the corners until I tightened the limiter strap. These are better than the stock spindles with the right valving and suspension set up. They deffinately make the sled feel wider. For anyone installing shorter spindles, I would recommend drilling new mount holes for the back of your skid about an inch higher on the tunnel mount bracket and sucking up the limiter strap to the tightest hole.
NOTE: Iwould like to say that the spindle height is only a small part of the problem with the Nytro. The ONLY real fix to the Nytro's handling is an aftermarket kit to move the A-arms forward. I have ridden a nytro with the Skins Concept front end and it is a beautiful thing. I'm sure a combination of lower spindles and moving the A-arms forward would make the handeling 2nd to none. The concept kit helps with steering effort and handeling of the Nytro, but is expensive and does not work with the stock GYTR shocks. I have 2 sets of stock A-arms and will be modifying a set this summer to push the skis forward about 3". I will try to include pics for those interested.

Pete

 

[birkebeiner]

Re: Handling Update

I have 2 sets of stock A-arms and will be modifying a set this summer to push the skis forward about 3". I will try to include pics for those interested.

Pete