Carlisle Belt Dimensions XS804 & XS805 for Apex/Attacks

thanks everyone....sounds Like i just need to grab me the XS805 and test.....

turk,ive heard so many say the new Yammie 8DN-01 belt is softer,but you think its same compound as 00...that is good i guess?....i know its a touch wider and should help to smooth engagement....i guess next season we will all be forced to use the 01 newer belts from yammie as the 00s will be gone.

dollar price on XS belts....if that is true its cheap!....

thanks alot guys!
Dan
 
Dan, something else to consider....how each manufacturer measure their belts vs. the top of the actual V of the belt.

Do they consider the V?

Only the top of the V matters for length.....various different brands have a taller or shorter rib on the top of the belt....hence affecting the outside circumference.

So it's ok to compare length of 1 Yammy belt vs another Yammy belt, simply by OC. But two different brands and I think you have variables to consider...
 
I have not changed anything on the clutching side of my Attak. I added a 144 1-1/2" Crossover and Wahls drivers. The gearing seems to be about perfect, but the rpm's are up a bit. I will be at the cottage on Thursday to see how things work.
 
There has to be a knowledgeable enthusiast who can expain in simple terms, what a SHORTER belt does to the primary or secondary, what a LONGER belt will do the them, what a WIDER belt will do, and what a NARROW belt will do.

The "narrow" belt being the most obvious that we all experience when we wear out our originals!
 
Dan you back to a stock motor now? Did you try the PCIII and Ignition Module yet from Ulmer? It works awesome....
 
Narrow= Less Ratio

Wider= More Ratio, but will bottom out in stock driven clutch.

Longer=Will start out in lower gear ratio.

Shorter=Will start out in higher gear ratio and bottom out in stock driven.

It doesn't get much simpler then that. The problem is many factors contribute to what point the driven clutch goes into overdrive. DON'T GO CHANGING FROM THE FACTORY BELT IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT THE OUTCOME WILL BE. ITS FINE TO PUT ON THE XS805 AS IT IS THE RECOMMENDED SIZE FOR OUR MACHINES. When you start getting into the 1.45 wide belt is when you will get into a can of worms. It will ride out farther on the primary and pull farther into the driven. If you want to do this it will also need to be longer or it will bottom out in the driven and blow it self up as the drive is still trying to pull and the driven is not letting it. Wider belts give more ratio from low to high. That is what some try to accomplish by gearing down and machining clutches for overdrive. The problem is the farther the clutches go into overdrive the less efficient they get. This is fine for Drag Racing as you want to run them clean out if gear and let them pick revs to the moon. But for Speed Runs it is most critical to go thru the traps at maximum clutch efficiency, (which is no where near OD). Maximum ratio is what we are after when we talk of wider belts. .020 wider than stock is fine as long as its a bit longer to prevent bottoming the stock driven. If it bottoms the hub of your stock cam against the stationary, it would help to machine the hub or go to an aftermarket cam as these hubs are already machined about .080 for clearance. Just don't go throwing on a 1.45 wide belt without knowing what you are doing with clutching. There is so much more to know about belts and clutches it would make your head spin. I will be happy to help out as things arise, as I'm sure others that are versed in clutching will as well.
 
SledFreak said:
Dan you back to a stock motor now? Did you try the PCIII and Ignition Module yet from Ulmer? It works awesome....
Click to expand...


Hey bud....

yep stock motor now,only got 200 miles on the new motor as we lost our trails....

My problem now is Im spending WAY too much cash on the Vrod!!...and the way winters are getting shorter and warmer,im glad i got back into biking...and guess i just dont want to drop bucks on the sled anymore...sure i will alwaus ride till Im an old fart but probably wont be dropping bucks on anything too major....unless the turbo bug gets me!

so are you running the Ulmer pc3 and module?...i actually just installed one onto my Vrod...and they arent too bad cost wise and easy to work with.....I assume you are advancing the timing to get more power?....

let me know how you like it,how it works,and how much!....and also are we seeing higher radar speeds?????

Dan
 
KnappAttack said:
Narrow= Less Ratio

Wider= More Ratio, but will bottom out in stock driven clutch.

Longer=Will start out in lower gear ratio.

Shorter=Will start out in higher gear ratio and bottom out in stock driven.

It doesn't get much simpler then that. The problem is many factors contribute to what point the driven clutch goes into overdrive. DON'T GO CHANGING FROM THE FACTORY BELT IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT THE OUTCOME WILL BE. ITS FINE TO PUT ON THE XS805 AS IT IS THE RECOMMENDED SIZE FOR OUR MACHINES. When you start getting into the 1.45 wide belt is when you will get into a can of worms. It will ride out farther on the primary and pull farther into the driven. If you want to do this it will also need to be longer or it will bottom out in the driven and blow it self up as the drive is still trying to pull and the driven is not letting it. Wider belts give more ratio from low to high. That is what some try to accomplish by gearing down and machining clutches for overdrive. The problem is the farther the clutches go into overdrive the less efficient they get. This is fine for Drag Racing as you want to run them clean out if gear and let them pick revs to the moon. But for Speed Runs it is most critical to go thru the traps at maximum clutch efficiency, (which is no where near OD). Maximum ratio is what we are after when we talk of wider belts. .020 wider than stock is fine as long as its a bit longer to prevent bottoming the stock driven. If it bottoms the hub of your stock cam against the stationary, it would help to machine the hub or go to an aftermarket cam as these hubs are already machined about .080 for clearance. Just don't go throwing on a 1.45 wide belt without knowing what you are doing with clutching. There is so much more to know about belts and clutches it would make your head spin. I will be happy to help out as things arise, as I'm sure others that are versed in clutching will as well.
Click to expand...

Mike,

great writeup.....the way I have my setup machined I really wish i had a 804 and 805 here,on the track with my radar gun....ive reworked my secondary,helix,hub... and also my primary and split collar is cut and I have to run a DIAL ENGAGE to bring it in smoothly....

this was the reason i really wanted to try the wider 804 belt out...i realize testing these on the radar gun is the only way Ill be able to compare,same day,same track ect.

good info here
Dan
 
Dan,
I am going to try some of these belts and clutching tomorrow on the track dyno. This should resolve all of the questions in our minds. I am in the same mindset as you, we are getting ready to remodel the house and money is in short supply, as well as our winters not being what they used to be. This is the first year I don't have a turbo trail sled myself. It is fun trying to stay ahead of the guys again with these stockers. Every HP we can find to the track is extremely valuable. Should be able to have some answers on Friday night or Saturday.

Mike
 
I was just wondering if the question of what drive belt to use has an answer for those of us with stock motors and clutches. I don't have the smarts or equipment to test as some on here do. I rely a lot on people like :-o Mike Knapp, RockerDan, Turk, Tork, etc. as they have a good handle on things because of the testing they do. There are others on here too, but I can't list you all. I'm going to have to get a new belt soon and was wondering what would be my best choice. If a stock belt is best, do I measure some and look for a longer of shorter 8DN How about width? I know my stock belts do not ride to the top of my primary. Would a longer 8DN would work best? I know I asking a lot but, the other problems i've had were solved here and was hoping to add another notch on the gun :die of all the guru's on here. No matter what, this site and it's users have helped me make my Attak ride and handle the way a $10,000 sled should. After tax season :hide: I'm going VIP.

Ya gotta love those Emotions
 
vmaxcrazy said:
I was just wondering if the question of what drive belt to use has an answer for those of us with stock motors and clutches. I don't have the smarts or equipment to test as some on here do. I rely a lot on people like :-o Mike Knapp, RockerDan, Turk, Tork, etc. as they have a good handle on things because of the testing they do. There are others on here too, but I can't list you all. I'm going to have to get a new belt soon and was wondering what would be my best choice. If a stock belt is best, do I measure some and look for a longer of shorter 8DN How about width? I know my stock belts do not ride to the top of my primary. Would a longer 8DN would work best? I know I asking a lot but, the other problems i've had were solved here and was hoping to add another notch on the gun :die of all the guru's on here. No matter what, this site and it's users have helped me make my Attak ride and handle the way a $10,000 sled should. After tax season :hide: I'm going VIP.

Ya gotta love those Emotions
Click to expand...

I think for the stock clutches and stock motor ect....the NEW 8DN-01 will probably work best....it apparently was made just a touch wider then original 8DN-00 to help bring the engagement in smoother.,and I have heard its softer from some,but not confirmed....

the old 8DN belt which i am still running this season is a hard belt...it will last and last..and IMO worked well for all these years....and i beleive the stock belts are quite abit cheaper then the XS belts....

Hope that helps make a decision....us guys talking about trying other belts are just always trying to sqeeze an extra .5mph out of our sleds or save a 100th of second.....so for the typical sledder who just wants to ride and have a belt last,stock is probably the best bet!..

Dan
 
A graph of the 8DN-00 belt vs the XS805 belt. The XS 805 belt works great for racing, but I've yet to try it on an all out top end run for MPH numbers. The only thing I haven't liked about the XS 805 belt is I have seen some variance in how long they last. Take the information for what it's worth.

;)!

8DNvsXS.jpg
 
Thanks Allen....good info!

this would be my biggest worry,as I do like to pile on miles for trail riding....

maybe an XS for radar days and just stocker for day to day rides......

Dan
 
when will these lakes freeze up so i can go for a ride on mary (lake) and see how much of a difference what Dan did compares to mine. we need to have an Apex day at the lake
 
trailmarker said:
when will these lakes freeze up so i can go for a ride on mary (lake) and see how much of a difference what Dan did compares to mine. we need to have an Apex day at the lake
Click to expand...


I ran my lake a few times prior to the thaw....but now its bizzare!....the major flooding we had upstream,has brought the lake up several feet to much higher then spring time levels,and the mouth of my river here at the north end has opened up the entire north shore....

ive never seen anything like this.....the river wore away at the ice on lake for about a full mile outward,and its wide open across from my place....the thaw and heavy rain last week made a true mess of things.


on a positive note....Hill & gully(port sydney club) just posted our trails back as limited...which have been closed now since the thaw....but we really need snow badly so they can fill in the water holes...

lets hope this 15-25cms(6-10")they are calling for over thursday-saturday materialize....we sure need it!

Dan
 
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