Clutching for Rx1???

[..Stiffler..]

Hey all,

i was looking through the tech pages at the clutching and found a bit of a problem.

If you go to "Clutches and Jetting" then "Clutching Tuning and Jetting Page" then "RX1 Performance"...

In there it states that stock RX-1's are running:

Stock
Primary Spring: Yellow-Silver-Yellow
Weights: 8FA-17605-00 69.43 grams
Rivets: 4.5 gram inner, 3.6 gram outer
Rollers: 15.0mm
Helix: 51-43 degree
Secondary Spring: Pink
Gears: 24-38, 70 link chain

Engagement: 34-3800 rpm
Shift: 10-10500 rpm

But if you goto "Stock Yamaha Snowmobile Specs" and scroll down to 2003 and look at RX-1 Mountain it stats this....


Primary Spring: Orange-Silver-Orange
Weights: 8FA-00
Rivets: None (inner), None(outer)
Helix: 45 Degree
Seconday Spring: White
Gears: 21-40, 70 Link

I was thinking of doing this to my clutching....

Primary Spring: Orange-Pink-Orange
Weights: 89L-17605-00 43 grams
Rivets: 4.5 gram
Rollers: 15.0mm
Helix: 51-43 degree
Secondary Spring: Green
Gears: 24-40, 70 link chain

Engagement: 43-4400 rpm
Shift: 10,500 rpm

What im wondering is....which one of these Stock specs are correct and should I do that clutch setup....????

Im 200lbs, 5'10", im running at about 1500-2000ft and im going to do most of my sledding on trails and lakes and farm fields. Not to much hill or mountain climbing....but maybe a bit if I can get out.

What do you guys think?

thx in advance for replies......

 

[BlgsRX-1mtn]

Hey all,

i was looking through the tech pages at the clutching and found a bit of a problem.

If you go to "Clutches and Jetting" then "Clutching Tuning and Jetting Page" then "RX1 Performance"...

In there it states that stock RX-1's are running:

Stock
Primary Spring: Yellow-Silver-Yellow
Weights: 8FA-17605-00 69.43 grams
Rivets: 4.5 gram inner, 3.6 gram outer
Rollers: 15.0mm
Helix: 51-43 degree
Secondary Spring: Pink
Gears: 24-38, 70 link chain

Engagement: 34-3800 rpm
Shift: 10-10500 rpm

But if you goto "Stock Yamaha Snowmobile Specs" and scroll down to 2003 and look at RX-1 Mountain it stats this....

Primary Spring: Orange-Silver-Orange
Weights: 8FA-00
Rivets: None (inner), None(outer)
Helix: 45 Degree
Seconday Spring: White
Gears: 21-40, 70 Link

I was thinking of doing this to my clutching....

Primary Spring: Orange-Pink-Orange
Weights: 89L-17605-00 43 grams
Rivets: 4.5 gram
Rollers: 15.0mm
Helix: 51-43 degree
Secondary Spring: Green
Gears: 24-40, 70 link chain

Engagement: 43-4400 rpm
Shift: 10,500 rpm

What im wondering is....which one of these Stock specs are correct and should I do that clutch setup....????

Im 200lbs, 5'10", im running at about 1500-2000ft and im going to do most of my sledding on trails and lakes and farm fields. Not to much hill or mountain climbing....but maybe a bit if I can get out.

What do you guys think?

thx in advance for replies......

I believe both of these specs are correct. The first is for the short tracked RX-1 at low elevation. My Stock '03 RX-1mtn has(had) the second setup you listed. I can't advise you on clutching for your style of riding since I am running the stock setup with a couple changes (bolded) to handle the Stage 1 SC (~195 HP @ 10,000);

Primary Spring: Orange-Silver-Orange
Weights: 8FA-00
Rivets: 4.5 solid steel (inner), 4.5 solid steel (outer)
Rollers: 14.5 mm
Helix: 45 Degree
Seconday Spring: Pink twisted to 70 degrees
Gears: 21-40, 70 Link

Engagement: ~3200 RPM
Max: 9760 RPM climbing hills in 2' of powder and 11,870 RPM blasting down the groomed trails

I'm 5'7" and 285 lbs with full gear including my survival pack. I ride some trails but mostly deep powder boondocking and some moderate climbing all between 7600'-10,900'+.

Edit; here's a link to my '03 RX-1 CD ROM uploaded to Putfile (just click next until you see the download box). http://putstuff.putfile.com/25672/5491414 the clutch specs for various altitudes are list on p. 75 for the short track sleds and p. 76 for the Mtn sleds.



Jim

 

[ViperTurboPete]

24/40 gearing sounds way too steep for me turning that track.

 

[..Stiffler..]

thx for the replies and thx for the manual...

So now anyone know if that would be a good setup for me?

Ill leave the Helix at 45 degrees and ill leave the gears at 21-40.
But ill change the following:


Primary Spring: Orange-Pink-Orange
Weights: 89L-17605-00 43 grams
Rivets: 4.5 gram
Rollers: 15.0mm
Secondary Spring: Green

Let me know anybody?.....thx


My riding again is:

Im about 220lbs with all gear 5'10 i ride at 1500-2000ft
I ride mostly trails and farm fields and lakes....im trying for the odd mountain.

 

[culvert]

most of the topics on TY about clutching the Mtn sleds say go with with 05 Specs. Search for Kachess, Frostbite, Trxter. They have put out some good posts on the clutching setups.

I'm in Cold Lake, Ab 17-2000' and ride the trails, lakes. Mine is an 05Mtn with
PRI:
O-P-O
8BU-10 weights 13.9inner, 13.3outter
14.5mm rollers
SEC:
silver 70*twist
54-42 helix
Im pulling 10500-10700

 

[..Stiffler..]

culvert whats your engage rpm?

 

[tundra]

stiffler i ran almost the same setup with 89L

Keep 21-40

But Green spring will be too soft if you do deep snow. But for the rest, i guess it will be ok.

here my setup

89L
15mm roller
17.2 rivet
and silver spring in the secondary and 44-40 cam. But i found the primary spring not ideal for me. You will engage at about 4400 rpm.

89L pull really strong in the midrange and strong in the bottom range.

 

[..Stiffler..]

sry maybe a dumb question.

you use 17.2 rivets on inner and outer so a total of 6 rivets needed for the 3 weights?

and thats if Im correct....

if I buy this stuff i need:

1x Primary Spring
3x Weights
6x Rivets
3x Rollers
1x Sec Spring

??

 

[culvert]

Do you know what you have in it already?
That is the list if you need everything new.
2 rivits per weight = 6
I'd have to check again but mine engages around 4500RPM. Also 21/40 gearing w/reverse

 

[..Stiffler..]

Do you know what you have in it already?

I havent actually taken the clutch apart...but my guess is that it is all stock..

and Tundra what about a Silver sec Spring...how soft is that??

 

[tundra]

89L use only one rivet. They have one Hole.

Silver spring is ideal with a low angle Helix. With a Straight 45, its shift too much and the RPM will drop on long run. Its why i use a 44-40. The setup wasn't perfect, but damn good. The sled with those weight react like a dirtBike. Motor rev more quickly, and my setup proven to be stronger than 05 setup. The rpm wont drop when climbing.

And, the ECP kit is a well assorted with this setup.

I can tell you that everything is better than the 03-04 setup :ORC

But for top speed, this setup is more sensitive, its more an strong acceleration setup than a High speed setup.

Now im trying other thing since i get more hp with the pipe. I now use a short primary spring to drop the Engaging RPM at 3000 Rpm and lot softer on top.

With 89L and Silver spring you will need a spring somewhere near 135 on top.

I was running last spring at 3-3 on the secondary and this was right on.

Its the setup that i was using on those drag racing video that i have on my putfile.

www.putfile.com/tundrarx1

Jeff

 

[..Stiffler..]

ok...well sry to be a bug...

I will be doing alot of riding on a lake similar to what you were on and on trails with lite snow. Some farm fields as well with a bit more snow then what was on the lake you were dragging on...

So for doing this kinda of riding to get the best possible performance (I like to have more bottom and mid then top end, but still want a bit top) what do you recommend??


Primary Spring: ??
Weights: ??
Rivets: ??
Rollers: ??
Secondary Spring: ??
Helix: ??


Also Do i have to get this all at the same time, or can I just install the rollers then later do other things, etc....

(talked to Yammy dealer and not all instock)

Thx

And Frostie heard you were the man to talk to for clutching...
Input please clutching pro.

 

[tundra]

ahaha, no, am not the man. Except that i made some testing that shown good result.

First thing to know.

21-40 will give you about 92 mph (radar) near 105 on the speedo.

You should get

3 x 15mm roller
3 x 89L weight
3 x 17.2mm rivet 4.5 gr.

For the spring in the primary. Where you want your engagement RPM ?

With the stock sled, you need about 135 on the Top. Last year, i used a Pink-silver-Pink. 35 -3.0-135 who got me near 5000 rpm for engagement. I was happy with this setup. , i tryed it in spring condition with good traction snow and the sled launched like a slingshot. Very hard, very fast. But in deep snow, that isnt the best RPM.

With the orange - pink orange 30 3.25 137 the engagement is near 4400 rpm. You will see some RPM more on top end with this spring.

With ECP my sled pulled way better near 10100 rpm, and the Pink-silver-pink give me 10000 to 10200 RPM on top end.

With the Pink orange Pink, you will see more 10300 to 10500

Now im trying a setup with a short spring. My sled is stronger than last year, those spring bring me in the rev limiter with the exhaust.

Short Spring engage sooner. A 30 will give you about 3800 at engagement. From my experience, 3800 is a good All Around.

Keep the Pink-silver-Pink when its time to drag with some friend. (you need good traction )

I didnt tryed a short spring last year. But i guess you will be good with a Orange-pink orange.

Ok, now the Secondary.

With those very light Weight, you should avoid a Stiff spring in the secondary, that will kill top speed. 46 gr vs 73 gr with fully loaded 8FA.

Its why Snowfever talked about a green or Silver spring with is setup. But a soft spring shift more quickly than a Stiff Spring, he let the secondary open faster. With a steeper helix the shift will be too quick on top end and it wont stop to shift enough sooner. That will make you drop some RPM, maybe after 1000 feets (personnal observation) Then, dont use the 45 straight Helix. Use a variable angle with a less angle in the end. Too much of a difference between the Beginning and the end will give you less upshift in the End (stop to shift too soon ). We found with my sled that 44-40 was right on. And the belt never never dropped in the bottom of the Seconday, even at 3-3 setting. In the hill, go to 1-6 if needed, but you will find that 3-3 is perfect.

Less angle give you better backshifting too, thing that is very important since we are'nt Lake racer. Response is the crucial thing. And i cant hope for a better backshifting than with this setup.

Thing you will get with this setup.

A very fast revving sled with good backshift and upshift. I can talk about the midrange with the stock airbox, its good, but not near that what i got with ECP.

hope i didnt say too much false information

Oh and with 21-40 at this elevation, your clutch will open and close all the way.

i should say thanks to Snowfever to make me discover the 89L
jeff

 

[tundra]

ok...well sry to be a bug...

Also Do i have to get this all at the same time, or can I just install the rollers then later do other things, etc....

If you have stock 16.5 mm roller, you will make the belt slip when moving the sled slowly and when the snow will be heavy or deep or on sand or parking lot.

DO all at the same time, if not you will find yourself pay for another Belt

 

[Frostbite]

Ok, I guess I will chime in but it's real clear to me that there are many ways to skin this cat. All of these guys have things that work great for them and there is no ONE specific recipe for success. We all have our best chili recipe and of course we all think ours is better than the next guys.

What works for me may or may not be best for your setup.

Yes, I tried many springs, weights and helixs in my testing. I tested with a stock RX-1 mountain with 8 tooth drivers, stock gearing and a 2" x 151" stock track.

Helix
The helix I liked the best of the large box that Dalton engineering's Dale Toole was kind enough to send me to test was most certainly the 54/42 progressive. In fact, it's the only one I kept. I still have it in my garage. It loads the motor hard on the initial launch and drops off to 42 degrees at just about the right rate to allow a good backshift. I tested at 3-5,000 feet on trails and a mountain airstrip.

Primary spring
I have tried a bunch of primary springs as well and to me nothing works as well as the orange/silver/orange spring. Yes it has a 142 total force but that just means you can throw more weight at your primary. I still use it today with three (ok, 4) spring shims. I liked it on my MSRX and I like it on the RX-1M just as much.

Rollers
Of course the stock rollers were 16.5 mm. I thought I'd try a set of 15mm I had on the bench. They worked WAY better than the stockers. This past summer I put 14.5mm rollers in the sled and I honestly can't tell too much of a difference between the 14.5mm and 15mm but it was several months between riding the with the two different rollers but they both are a huge improvemnet over the 16.5mm rollers.

Secondary spring
I like the yamaha Silver spring the best. I have tried it everywhere from 50 to 100 degrees and like 80 the best. 70 is fine but the backshift is a little less dramatic. I am running 90 degrees now and the backshift is awesome but I feel it may be holding me back a tad on the big end.

Weights
Along with the Dalton helixes came a box of Dalton clutch weights. I tried several of them and liked the 55.5 and 57.5 gram weights the best. I think I'd buy the the 57.5 or heavier for anything less than 4,000 feet. The shift curve rate of the Daltons was based on the Yamaha 8DN weights but I couldn't get any top end out of them. I'd pull 86 mph on the airstrip.
I did buy a set of 89L weights but I never got around to trying them. I had a set of 8DN-00 weights from my MSRX. I loaded them up with a steel washer under each 14.5mm rivet and ended up in the 56.5 gram range (right between the Dalton weights). I still think they are super fun in the RX-1M on the bottom end but once again 86 mph was about it on the big end. I would still like to try them climbing some day.
Then I read about these new (new to me anyway) heavy hitter weights. Dale sold me a set and off I went to test. I initially ran the 8DN-00 weights and once again a great holeshot but 86mph on top. I left everything the same and reluctantly threw in the heavy hitters with a wild #*$&@ guess of where the weight should be. The first run I saw 102 mph on the dream meter. I was shocked! How could this be with only a weight change? I added a little more tip weight and the next run was 106 mph. That was it. I was sold!
I still use the heavy hitters today. I have lightened them up a little from my initial testing so my new shock wave helix has more adjustability but I like them. I have heard the super tips are better but I haven't tried them.

What else?

Once again. You can and should custom tailor your clutching to your needs. I'm kind of a freak as far as being one type of rider. I have pretty much tried to make my sled a crossover tilting a bit more to off trail riding capability. It's tough to find something that works for all aplications but I think I'm darn close.

Best of luck

Frosty