palebluewinder
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Hi all. I’m looking for some much needed assistance as I’m having a hard time trying to dial in my clutching.
22’ LTX.. TD powertrail, 2.5” turboforce, hurricane intake, dalton blk/grn primary, blk/org secondary springs, straight 35 helix, TP primary rollers, DTAY-1 weights. 1.25 track with studs.
I set the initial clutching with a 6-1 wrap on the secondary with 1/2” (1.9g) @ tip + 5/8” (2.5g) on top = 4.4g for primary weights. Brand new XS825 belt. Rpms were between 8950-9050 at WOT which was perfect. Lake crossing came up so I held it for a bit… blew the belt to shreds.
Tried a different wrap as it’s the V2 blk/org spring and Dalton recommends a 6-2 on it. So that’s what I did. Checked offset and had to remove the large washer behind the secondary to get it to 60.5mm. Installed a new but broken in 8JP, set deflection flush with top of the sheave. Ran the same weight set up and was pulling 9400 before I let off the throttle. Adjusted the weights to 5.6g. I was pulling the same 9400 or so rpm. Went to the full 7.4g. Same results, around 9400 rpm.
I loved how snappy this set up was, clutches were cool and belt temps around 140*F. I’m wondering why I can’t get my rpm down to at least 9000? What should I try next?
22’ LTX.. TD powertrail, 2.5” turboforce, hurricane intake, dalton blk/grn primary, blk/org secondary springs, straight 35 helix, TP primary rollers, DTAY-1 weights. 1.25 track with studs.
I set the initial clutching with a 6-1 wrap on the secondary with 1/2” (1.9g) @ tip + 5/8” (2.5g) on top = 4.4g for primary weights. Brand new XS825 belt. Rpms were between 8950-9050 at WOT which was perfect. Lake crossing came up so I held it for a bit… blew the belt to shreds.
Tried a different wrap as it’s the V2 blk/org spring and Dalton recommends a 6-2 on it. So that’s what I did. Checked offset and had to remove the large washer behind the secondary to get it to 60.5mm. Installed a new but broken in 8JP, set deflection flush with top of the sheave. Ran the same weight set up and was pulling 9400 before I let off the throttle. Adjusted the weights to 5.6g. I was pulling the same 9400 or so rpm. Went to the full 7.4g. Same results, around 9400 rpm.
I loved how snappy this set up was, clutches were cool and belt temps around 140*F. I’m wondering why I can’t get my rpm down to at least 9000? What should I try next?
jonlafon1
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Why not go back to the ultimax belt? ALSO check that your stub shaft has not moved. If your set on running the 8jp your going to have to add more weight to primary clutch. With that tune you will need 6/2 OR 6/3 on the secondary spring wrap.
markt111
Expert
I run the same tune, clutch springs and weights, stock helix and I am running 80.4 grams in the weights(loaded) with the Ultimax belt to get around 9100rpm. They say the Ultimax drops rpm quite a bit, I haven't done the back-to-back testing to verify.
I change my belt before 1500 miles preventatively!!
I change my belt before 1500 miles preventatively!!
palebluewinder
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I would like to set it up for the 8JP, just because I have about 3 of them. I also have an 8DN. I would add more weight if I could, but I’m currently maxed out with the 1” stacked on top of the 3/4” slug on the ramps. I will verify the stub shaft movement. I know the ultimax will drop my rpm if I run it again, but I’m really just trying to see if it’s possible to achieve lower rpm’s with the 8JP. Would I need to get the DTAY-2 weights maybe?Why not go back to the ultimax belt? ALSO check that your stub shaft has not moved. If your set on running the 8jp your going to have to add more weight to primary clutch. With that tune you will need 6/2 OR 6/3 on the secondary spring wrap.
palebluewinder
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I believe with the ramps fully loaded I’m at 81.9g. Mike from TD recommends the straight 35 with all of their tunes so that’s what I went with. I was at 9100 with the ultimax belt and spring wrapped to 6-1 with 78.9g in the primary but I guess it was slipping, got super hot and exploded at wot. Belt had 60 miles on it.I run the same tune, clutch springs and weights, stock helix and I am running 80.4 grams in the weights(loaded) with the Ultimax belt to get around 9100rpm. They say the Ultimax drops rpm quite a bit, I haven't done the back-to-back testing to verify.
I change my belt before 1500 miles preventatively!!
jonlafon1
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Yea nothing wrong with the 8jp. Its a little dirty but still a good belt. If your going that direction(8jp) then more weight/different weights might be best option.I would like to set it up for the 8JP, just because I have about 3 of them. I also have an 8DN. I would add more weight if I could, but I’m currently maxed out with the 1” stacked on top of the 3/4” slug on the ramps. I will verify the stub shaft movement. I know the ultimax will drop my rpm if I run it again, but I’m really just trying to see if it’s possible to achieve lower rpm’s with the 8JP. Would I need to get the DTAY-2 weights maybe?
Simplespeed
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Finding your target RPM can be accomplished in many ways and will get close to what you after. If you want your clutching dead on perfect you really need some way of telling you actual results when changes are made. I think a temperature measurement is critical on belt heat, a another sled, timeing lights, or some other dependable way of measuring changes.. Your clutch offset at 60.5 is within spec but in my opinion is still not perfect and shalf on secondary needs some material removed.. Then clutch it….
jonlafon1
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The 2022 sidewinders offset is slightly different then previous years. Not EVERY sled will have same offset but 60 is a great starting point on the 22's. Hurricane bar, testing for temps, and inspecting sheaves will get you "your number" on offset.
KnappAttack
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Ufff, reading this brings back horribly bad memories of blown belts and eating rollers for breakfast on the stock Winder primary for sure.
So having been down the blown belt road before numerous times, I'd have to say that this sounds an awful lot like too light on the secondary spring settings and a possible warped & binding primary clutch. I got to the point where I had to go away from the stock primary because of the blown belts and roller eating issues. Going to the old RX-1 primary fixed the issues and cured both the blown belt and roller eating problems. I'm now running the TAPP primary and life is good but still need to run 90 degree wrap on the V2 Dalton black/orange secondary spring.
Check to make sure the stub shaft is in place, I take them apart, clean them up and green locktite the bearing in the housing so they stay put, then mock up the clutches for full shift and make certain to align the belt at full shift measuring with a straight edge with the belt at tension at full shift. Don't just use a number willy nilly, every machine is going to need a different offset because of Center to Center differences and other factors such as belt length etc.
So having been down the blown belt road before numerous times, I'd have to say that this sounds an awful lot like too light on the secondary spring settings and a possible warped & binding primary clutch. I got to the point where I had to go away from the stock primary because of the blown belts and roller eating issues. Going to the old RX-1 primary fixed the issues and cured both the blown belt and roller eating problems. I'm now running the TAPP primary and life is good but still need to run 90 degree wrap on the V2 Dalton black/orange secondary spring.
Check to make sure the stub shaft is in place, I take them apart, clean them up and green locktite the bearing in the housing so they stay put, then mock up the clutches for full shift and make certain to align the belt at full shift measuring with a straight edge with the belt at tension at full shift. Don't just use a number willy nilly, every machine is going to need a different offset because of Center to Center differences and other factors such as belt length etc.
palebluewinder
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150 miles on Saturday with no blown belt. 8JP, secondary wrapped to 6-2. Only issue is I can’t get my RPMs down with completely loaded up DTAY-1s. Go back to ultimax belt or move up to the DTAY-2 kit?Ufff, reading this brings back horribly bad memories of blown belts and eating rollers for breakfast on the stock Winder primary for sure.
So having been down the blown belt road before numerous times, I'd have to say that this sounds an awful lot like too light on the secondary spring settings and a possible warped & binding primary clutch. I got to the point where I had to go away from the stock primary because of the blown belts and roller eating issues. Going to the old RX-1 primary fixed the issues and cured both the blown belt and roller eating problems. I'm now running the TAPP primary and life is good but still need to run 90 degree wrap on the V2 Dalton black/orange secondary spring.
Check to make sure the stub shaft is in place, I take them apart, clean them up and green locktite the bearing in the housing so they stay put, then mock up the clutches for full shift and make certain to align the belt at full shift measuring with a straight edge with the belt at tension at full shift. Don't just use a number willy nilly, every machine is going to need a different offset because of Center to Center differences and other factors such as belt length etc.
KnappAttack
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Are you going by the max RPM recall on this 9400 RPM figure, or is it holding 9400 forever on the tach or logs?
palebluewinder
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So it will jump to 9400 at wide open throttle right away, then continue climbing. I don’t have any logs for max rpms and I didn’t really want to find the limiter either. I realize I have to keep the spring tensioned to 6-2 so I feel like I only have 2 options. Go up to the dtay-2 weights and ramps or run ultimax belts with a fully loaded primary.Are you going by the max RPM recall on this 9400 RPM figure, or is it holding 9400 forever on the tach or logs?
KnappAttack
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2017 Sidewinder LTX-LE
So it will jump to 9400 at wide open throttle right away, then continue climbing. I don’t have any logs for max rpms and I didn’t really want to find the limiter either. I realize I have to keep the spring tensioned to 6-2 so I feel like I only have 2 options. Go up to the dtay-2 weights and ramps or run ultimax belts with a fully loaded primary.
Hard to imagine it needs that much weight on that tune. It's why I believe the primary is binding under power, which the winder primary is known to do or I've witnessed on my machines. You surely shouldn't need DTAY-2 weight on that smaller tune, no way no how. Have you looked to make sure the rollers are rolling well in the primary and secondary? The bushings like to push out on the primary roller and bind, and the stock secondary rollers like to skid and flat spot and generally don't roll well, check that out too.
I'd be using the XS belt myself, but thats just me, its a stronger belt than the 8JP and seems to hold up better, but requires much less weight in the primary.
palebluewinder
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Will check rollers and report back. They are brand new Thunder Products HD in the primary. Secondary rollers still stock. Thanks for your help!Hard to imagine it needs that much weight on that tune. It's why I believe the primary is binding under power, which the winder primary is known to do or I've witnessed on my machines. You surely shouldn't need DTAY-2 weight on that smaller tune, no way no how. Have you looked to make sure the rollers are rolling well in the primary and secondary? The bushings like to push out on the primary roller and bind, and the stock secondary rollers like to skid and flat spot and generally don't roll well, check that out too.
I'd be using the XS belt myself, but thats just me, its a stronger belt than the 8JP and seems to hold up better, but requires much less weight in the primary.
1049triple
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I second Knapp! Something keep the clutchs from shifting.
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