red rider
Newbie
- Joined
- Oct 14, 2005
- Messages
- 22
Okay here's a good one. I tried my coolant heater for the first time this week. Plugged it in for an hour. Went to start it and no go! It would turn over and then fire a little, but not catch. Put throttle partly on and cranked, it fired but did not catch. Put throttle wide open, cranked, and it caught but acted like it was flooded. As it ran it cleared.
My thought is this: the water temp probe is located just above the heater and the ECU senses the temp is warm and then adjusts the fuel as if the motor had been warmed up already. Therefore it bypasses the warm up stage.
I had a heater on my Vector, but because it was carbed I never had this problem. Anybody else experience this or have an opion as to what is happening here?
My thought is this: the water temp probe is located just above the heater and the ECU senses the temp is warm and then adjusts the fuel as if the motor had been warmed up already. Therefore it bypasses the warm up stage.
I had a heater on my Vector, but because it was carbed I never had this problem. Anybody else experience this or have an opion as to what is happening here?
Thewhitedogg
Extreme
You are correct. The coolant heaters are not made to be used on fuel injected sleds
Thewhitedogg said:
I wonder how the block heaters that either stick or have a magnet and you put them on the oil pan would work on the fuel injected sleds. A warm block and oil would def start alot better and easier. Theres plenty of room when you take the the small pan off to change your oil and you could route the plug out so its easy to get to when you want to plug it in.
kenbar
Extreme
I am having the exact same problem with 2007 Attak. Starts when not plugged in but turns over and over when plugged in. You basically have to flood it to fire up.
I was wondering if unplugging the coolant sensor before starting would help? I am thinking that by unplugging it the ECU would default to rich. It is real easy to do and is located about two inches from the heater. I unplugged it when it was warm and it started no problem.
The good news is that I was overnight at a cabin last week and it dropped to -36C! The machine started after two attempts.
I was wondering if unplugging the coolant sensor before starting would help? I am thinking that by unplugging it the ECU would default to rich. It is real easy to do and is located about two inches from the heater. I unplugged it when it was warm and it started no problem.
The good news is that I was overnight at a cabin last week and it dropped to -36C! The machine started after two attempts.
I would guess relocating the heater down in a hose by the front heat exchanger would work better... not an easy place to install it.
Soldier'spapa
Lifetime Member
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- Naperville, IL
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Thewhitedogg said:
Yep... In the accessory catelog it states the universal coolant heaters are not for EFI models.
NY_Nytro
TY 4 Stroke Master
Good thing I saw this. I had one in my Warrior and my Nytro and was just thinking of getting one for my Apex.
1CrazySledder
Lifetime Member
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- Aug 11, 2005
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- None, looking now!
Here's something to look at?
http://www.reiffpreheat.com/Motorcycle.htm
or
http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/Prod ... 48/c-10101
http://www.reiffpreheat.com/Motorcycle.htm
or
http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/Prod ... 48/c-10101
ReX
TY 4 Stroke God
I've noticed that if I turn on my 95,000 BTU heater in my shop for about 1/2 an hour (to make some minor adjustments or something) and then try to start my sled it also floods itself. It will fire, start for a split second but then flood and then quit (if I don't give it a little throttle quickly).
My sled always starts and runs flawlessly if it hasn't been externally warmed up.
I haven't looked where the temperature sensors are, but obviously the computer thinks the motor is still at closer to -30°, when the air and portions of the motor are now probably 25°.
Where are the temp sensors located?
Is there an air temp and a block temp?
Is it lean or rich when you use a coolant heater?
I've always thought it would be useful to have a coolant heater for use in the extreme north with these sleds. I know mine will start down close to -40° without too much trouble, but it would be nice to know it can handle extreme cold also. There must be a simple way to trick the computer so the motor will start when a coolant heater is used.
I remember back in the mid-1980's I had a Dodge 600 with EFI. To start it if I didn't use the block heater in extreme cold (-40° range) I had to first unplug the coolant temperature sensor. This would trick the computer into thinking it was +20°C (default when no coolant temp reading) and it would start right up (running a little on the lean side until I plugged in the temp sensor). If I didn't do this, it would flood so badly that even the foot on floor trick (shutting off the injectors with this EFI) sometimes wouldn't clear it out enough to start.
My sled always starts and runs flawlessly if it hasn't been externally warmed up.
I haven't looked where the temperature sensors are, but obviously the computer thinks the motor is still at closer to -30°, when the air and portions of the motor are now probably 25°.
Where are the temp sensors located?
Is there an air temp and a block temp?
Is it lean or rich when you use a coolant heater?
I've always thought it would be useful to have a coolant heater for use in the extreme north with these sleds. I know mine will start down close to -40° without too much trouble, but it would be nice to know it can handle extreme cold also. There must be a simple way to trick the computer so the motor will start when a coolant heater is used.
I remember back in the mid-1980's I had a Dodge 600 with EFI. To start it if I didn't use the block heater in extreme cold (-40° range) I had to first unplug the coolant temperature sensor. This would trick the computer into thinking it was +20°C (default when no coolant temp reading) and it would start right up (running a little on the lean side until I plugged in the temp sensor). If I didn't do this, it would flood so badly that even the foot on floor trick (shutting off the injectors with this EFI) sometimes wouldn't clear it out enough to start.
Soldier'spapa
Lifetime Member
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- Mar 21, 2006
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- Naperville, IL
- Country
- USA
- Snowmobile
- 2018 Sidewinder Ltx LE 50th Anniversary
" I had to first unplug the coolant temperature sensor. This would trick the computer into thinking it was +20°C (default when no coolant temp reading) and it would start right up"
On my 05 MachZ the cooling system did not incorporate a thermostat. It was found to run the engine so cool at times that the ecm would revert to warm up mode.... (Richening up the fuel) This created a bunch of unwanted operating conditions. A couple guys on Dootalk came up with a solution.... Wiring in a resistor that would trick the ecm to seeing a desired engine temp. A simple throw of a switch would allow the ecm to see one or the other (Resistor or actual coolant temp sensor). It would take a little testing with an Ohm meter to see what the ECM see's from the coolant sensor, and maybe a little trial and error, but perhaps tricking the ECM could allow for use of a coolant heater in the EFI Yamaha's.
On my 05 MachZ the cooling system did not incorporate a thermostat. It was found to run the engine so cool at times that the ecm would revert to warm up mode.... (Richening up the fuel) This created a bunch of unwanted operating conditions. A couple guys on Dootalk came up with a solution.... Wiring in a resistor that would trick the ecm to seeing a desired engine temp. A simple throw of a switch would allow the ecm to see one or the other (Resistor or actual coolant temp sensor). It would take a little testing with an Ohm meter to see what the ECM see's from the coolant sensor, and maybe a little trial and error, but perhaps tricking the ECM could allow for use of a coolant heater in the EFI Yamaha's.
AmsoilYamaha
Newbie
I don't use a heater, just a really good 0w30 Synthetic Oil with a very low pour point.
Randy J Beyer
Pro
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2006
- Messages
- 150
Amen on the thin oil ! Should not need a block heater ! Well maybe at 40 below !
attak-d
Pro
With this heater wouldt you want to put it on the oil tank . Becose this is a dry sump system?1CrazySledder said:
Darn and I just ordered a coolant heater, oh well if all else fails, I've still got the 03 RX1 I can put it on.
ReX
TY 4 Stroke God
hlmrx1 said:
I'm sure if it was -45° or around there the coolant heater would still help - you just first need to figure out what needs to be disconnected first.
I haven't looked, but I expect there is at least a coolant temperature sensor and an air temperature sensor. I wouldn't be surprised at all if the trick is to disconnect one of them when using a coolant heater and starting cold in very cold weather.
Above -40°, as long as your running semi or fully synthetic 0w30 it should start without the heater.
There also might be a starting method that works with the coolant heater, like giving a touch of throttle when starting it cold, if you use the coolant heater.
