Dialing in Snow Trackers on single keel ski

[WinderFab]

X2..
I would take knapp advise and go with the aggressive ones and adjust suspension to the way snow tracker wants you to, with minimal ski pressure.

Ive never heard of anybody running snow trackers and adjusting the suspension in the direction you are.. Snow trackers work best with minimal ski pressure and shouldn’t be getting ski lift..

Good luck though, hope they work out for you..
Let us know the outcome..

 

[SudburyApex]

You can tune till your blue in the face on Seim-Aggressives, they will push and nothing you can do about it. There is a reason they are called "semi-aggressive", its because they are not "aggressive". They will only work decent on actual hardpack or firm snow conditions. Typically people who purchase semi-aggressive are touring or casual and slower riders.
You need "Aggressive" SnowTrackers on those single keel skis. No reason to change anything on the suspension, set it for ride because the Aggressive SnowTrackers will go where pointed, not dart and steer easy.

I get your point. I guess I am an "aggressive" rider and need more carbide. I purchased the semi's based on the many carbide posts on this forum. Perhaps this post will be a good reference for those debating between semis vs aggressive.

 

[SudburyApex]

X2..
I would take knapp advise and go with the aggressive ones and adjust suspension to the way snow tracker wants you to, with minimal ski pressure.

Ive never heard of anybody running snow trackers and adjusting the suspension in the direction you are.. Snow trackers work best with minimal ski pressure and shouldn’t be getting ski lift..

Good luck though, hope they work out for you..
Let us know the outcome..

Yes thanks to all for the ideas and advice. And yes, it seems my tuning is headed in the opposite direction that the ST instructions indicate :/.
Although, I assumed the inside ski lift is always going to occur as you reach the maximum turning velocity of the vehicle. At some point the sled has to either slide off the trail or roll of the trail. You can push the physics by getting on top of the bars and leaning hard to the inside of the turn. I remember on my apex you could beef up the transfer bar to move more energy to inside ski. Lowering the center of gravity also helped.

Its not that I need to be so aggressive with the turns, I just like adjusting and learning. Also not sure how I feel about buying another $300 set of carbides

 

[TD Max]

You can tune till your blue in the face on Seim-Aggressives, they will push and nothing you can do about it. There is a reason they are called "semi-aggressive", its because they are not "aggressive". They will only work decent on actual hardpack or firm snow conditions. Typically people who purchase semi-aggressive are touring or casual and slower riders.

You need "Aggressive" SnowTrackers on those single keel skis. No reason to change anything on the suspension, set it for ride because the Aggressive SnowTrackers will go where pointed, not dart and steer easy.

I wanted to say this, but never tried the semi's. Makes perfect sense though.

 

[Mike P]

Its just my opinion;
With all that traction in the skid from the ripsaw and 100 studs, your sled is always trying to go strait. Your ski and carbide need to over-come the rear skid direction. If you can get you skid to break traction and lift your #*$&@ off the seat while committing to the turn you will eliminate your ski-lift as the skid slides around. You will also carry more speed thru the corners while maintaining control. Your exit times from the corners will be quicker as your ability to accelerate will arrive sooner. (there is a bit more to it but that is the short of it)
Snow trackers can only do so much, sometimes to much up front is not what is needed to get thru a corner. Telling you what you need for your sled and how to set it up would be great if I was riding your sled. Figure out what you want your sled to do and set her up for that. Try to understand what each part of the suspension is for and how it reacts to change. Try not to forget about trail conditions and rider-input.
Enjoy the ride.

 

[TD Max]

I'm going to go back and harp on the rear shock rebound. When I first got my sled I had the tuner skis on it. I had dual shapers at either 6 or 8" and the sled did not turn at all. It was flat out terrible. So bad that I had absolutely zero confidence in the corners. Met up with Cannondale and he said to open up the rear rebound. I thought he was nuts. I did not want to have the rear pop up and kick me off the seat. Thankfully my sled has the clickers so I can juts get out the wrench and open it up. Reluctantly I opened it up and sure enough he was right. Don't get me wrong, the Tuners still suck for anything other than leisure, but at least I had some semblence of steering control and a bit of confidence. I have since ditched the tuners for Curves. I would consider Trackers for the Curves but the Slim Jims are doing very well for me.

 

[Dusty Dan]

I'm going to go back and harp on the rear shock rebound. When I first got my sled I had the tuner skis on it. I had dual shapers at either 6 or 8" and the sled did not turn at all. It was flat out terrible. So bad that I had absolutely zero confidence in the corners. Met up with Cannondale and he said to open up the rear rebound. I thought he was nuts. I did not want to have the rear pop up and kick me off the seat. Thankfully my sled has the clickers so I can juts get out the wrench and open it up. Reluctantly I opened it up and sure enough he was right. Don't get me wrong, the Tuners still suck for anything other than leisure, but at least I had some semblence of steering control and a bit of confidence. I have since ditched the tuners for Curves. I would consider Trackers for the Curves but the Slim Jims are doing very well for me.

I have curves and snowtrackers on my Viper and curves and slimjims on my Vector. Love them both.

 

[KnappAttack]

Check it out.

NO MORE EXCUSES!


.

 

[Mike P]

Check it out.

NO MORE EXCUSES!


.

great read

 

[SudburyApex]

Through February I put on about 1000miles in Quebec and Northern Ontario with all sorts of trails and conditions and wanted to follow up. Thanks for all for the responses and links to other write-ups on viper suspension setup. Like islandracing mentioned, words like "push", "darting", and "on rails" are way to subjective to be taken as literally. Especially when rider weight and trail conditions play important parts as well. On typical days my machine "railed" turns at 35MPH but blew them at anything above 50... The best way to confirm your sled is handling like crap (besides this forum) is to trade with your riding buddies (particularly those on the same chassis) for a little bit. It really helped alot to determine how to get the most out of my '14 viper LTX-DX. People who rode my sled said it was pleasure to drive (zero turning effort) until you try to go fast with it. Then it was terrifying as you blow through turn after turn on hill crests. In the end I had the limiter tightened to the 4/5 hole, the center shock rattling loose and ski springs full preload. All this and being on top of the bars allowed me to keep up with most of the riders in my group. But boy was I pooped at the end of the day!

Fast forward to last night. Went down to Royal to buy a pair of Snowtracker aggressives, but no stock. On their recommendation I picked up a set of Slydog trail skis (1" fancy keel ski with a 6" carbide, incl mounting kit). Almost the same price for the whole set as the ST carbides. Installed them. backed of the ski preload to half, brought the limiter to 2/5, snugged up the center preload 3/4" and went for a rip. Holy crap. I could tell things were different as I could now feel the trail underneath, and there was some mild darting. One fast tight turn in and I new I had it! No push. The ski dug in and I was in business. Can't wait for the group ride this weekend!

 

[ateick]

Great info. Glad things worked out and glad I saw this because I was debating what to do and didn't look forward to the cost of new skis plus snowtrackers. This looks like an effective, reasonably priced solution.

 

[ateick]

How was the group ride and how did the Slydog perform?

 

[SudburyApex]

It went great! So far I really like the Slydog setup with the 6" carbide. I have not experienced any push which makes sense when you look at how long (and deep) the keel is on the ski (it runs the whole length of the ski). I am still dialing out the darting by adding preload to the front skid spring. I must admit, the 2014 Yami ski with semi snowtracker had zero darting and almost zero turning effort. It just didnt grab at speed, which makes sense since they make an aggressive ST version for that. So if you are not an aggressive rider, you would likely love my old setup. If you are an aggressive rider, buy the aggressive ST or get a more aggressive ski design like the Slydog.