What is everyones fasination with EFI? The RX-1 is capaible of getting 15 plus MPG. Accroding to guys I know at Yamaha the RX-1 makes 1 HP more with EFI. The proof is on the bike. It only gained 1 to 2 HP over carbs
So in my opinion I don't want EFI. It will only increase the cost and add one more thing that has a chance of failure!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
One benifit is cold start. I bet it would fire in an instant with EFI
So in my opinion I don't want EFI. It will only increase the cost and add one more thing that has a chance of failure!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
One benifit is cold start. I bet it would fire in an instant with EFI
There is no downside to closed loop EFI in my opinion.
Drivability would be even better than it is now. There would also be an increase in fuel milage.
It would also be the perfect companion to turbocharging. 8)
Drivability would be even better than it is now. There would also be an increase in fuel milage.
It would also be the perfect companion to turbocharging. 8)
ESKIMO
Extreme
I read in a magazine article that EFI on a snowmobile is "DUMB".
The chipsets that control the amount of fuel injected into an truck engine with EFI rely on a number of different combinations in environmental conditions, and these are sensed by an elaborate set of sensors and such.
It is impossible to put in the same elaborate sensors in a snowmobile and thus, the chipset on a snowmobile equipped with an EFI has very limited sensors, so the majority of environmental conditions that need to be sensed as if it would in a "true" EFI system are pre-programmed at the factory. The snowmobile with an EFI system usually are outside the environmental conditions range (or combinations thereof) in which the chipset was programmed for.
It might be great for starting, I'll give it that much. but generally, I don;t have trouble starting my sled. And if the increase in fuel milage were "significant" enough, than we'd all be driving sleds with EFI in them.
My 2 cents. Eskimo
The chipsets that control the amount of fuel injected into an truck engine with EFI rely on a number of different combinations in environmental conditions, and these are sensed by an elaborate set of sensors and such.
It is impossible to put in the same elaborate sensors in a snowmobile and thus, the chipset on a snowmobile equipped with an EFI has very limited sensors, so the majority of environmental conditions that need to be sensed as if it would in a "true" EFI system are pre-programmed at the factory. The snowmobile with an EFI system usually are outside the environmental conditions range (or combinations thereof) in which the chipset was programmed for.
It might be great for starting, I'll give it that much. but generally, I don;t have trouble starting my sled. And if the increase in fuel milage were "significant" enough, than we'd all be driving sleds with EFI in them.
My 2 cents. Eskimo
Eskimo, that is why I specified "closed loop" injection. Closed loop means that it is to some extent self changing, with the ability to alter fuel and timing maps to match air flow changes as well as temp and elevation. It is not as complicated as you were to believe.
Other than possesing the power to do the computations, an oxygen sensor and a means of measuring the airflow are all that is needed to make a "dumb" EFI "smart".
There is a little more to it than that, but not all that much. A speed density system would function much better than the systems that the sled makers have used so far. And that is a very simple system.
When "smart" EFI reaches sleds I will own one!
Other than possesing the power to do the computations, an oxygen sensor and a means of measuring the airflow are all that is needed to make a "dumb" EFI "smart".
There is a little more to it than that, but not all that much. A speed density system would function much better than the systems that the sled makers have used so far. And that is a very simple system.
When "smart" EFI reaches sleds I will own one!
POWERHAULIC: It would only be perfect if you were an expert at programming the system in place.
I've had long conversations about EFI and turbos with Mr turbo and they say that it's great but you better know what the hell your doing!!!
I wonder if Power Commander what make something for the RX-1???
The funny thing is I'm running flawlessly now On one Carb!!!
I've had long conversations about EFI and turbos with Mr turbo and they say that it's great but you better know what the hell your doing!!!
I wonder if Power Commander what make something for the RX-1???
The funny thing is I'm running flawlessly now On one Carb!!!
And I'm running flawlessly on 4 carbs, but EFI would still be better. 8)
There are several aftermarket software systems out there that are simple to operate right from a laptop computer.
There are several aftermarket software systems out there that are simple to operate right from a laptop computer.
SUPERTUNER
TY 4 Stroke Master
EFI has a lot of different styles. With the correct and proper system, they are light years ahead of carburetors. I tune hundreds of bikes a year with fuel injection and it sure is nice to tune from a PC rather than changing jets and spilling cold gas on your hands on a frozen lake.
Think it is "dumb"? Make that remark to every single formula one engineer and race team in the world and see what kind of reply you get.
Cost differences are not that extravangant and in some cases and especially in the long run, FI is cheaper.
Freddie
Think it is "dumb"? Make that remark to every single formula one engineer and race team in the world and see what kind of reply you get.
Cost differences are not that extravangant and in some cases and especially in the long run, FI is cheaper.
Freddie
Well said Freddie :!:
ESKIMO
Extreme
SUPERTUNER said:
Hey Freddie, good point. But the EFI systems on formula one car (I assume its an open wheel race car) is very elaborate with complicated sensors and computers capable of computing the various conditions and the different combinations of those conditons to provide optimal fuel into the engine.
You can't have that complicated "true" or EFI system in a snowmobile. There are differences in the conditions imposed on different vehicles. A bike runs on pavement and in the summer and is not susceptible to bumps and the cold like snowmobiles. (weak point, but that's all I have, I don't know what components there are on an EFI system other than sensors and a computer)
Also, there are other values, not just monetary, to consider. Like jtssrx mentioned, it's just another thing to go wrong.
In my opinion, it's not possible to have a "true" EFI system on a sled and that those who offer it in their sleds (like the cats) do so as just a sales gimmick. I can see a few people who would buy into it.
Eskimo
JDKRXW
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
A bike runs on pavement and in the summer and is not susceptible to bumps and the cold like snowmobiles.
Eskimo[/quote]
At first I thought that the bump part wouldn't be an issue, but then, after thinking about this for a minute, I think you're right. Example; no motoX or other serious offroad bikes are injected.
Sure fuel injection systems are very nice to tune, but I think that most people don't realise that 4 strokes are affected by environmental conditions FAR LESS than 2 strokes are.
Eskimo[/quote]
At first I thought that the bump part wouldn't be an issue, but then, after thinking about this for a minute, I think you're right. Example; no motoX or other serious offroad bikes are injected.
Sure fuel injection systems are very nice to tune, but I think that most people don't realise that 4 strokes are affected by environmental conditions FAR LESS than 2 strokes are.
welterracer
TY 4 Stroke God
THe reason EFI is so great is this...
My buddy took his zr800 efi out to wyoming and didnt have to rejet it to ride it... Just start it up...and add oil and gas..
My buddy took his zr800 efi out to wyoming and didnt have to rejet it to ride it... Just start it up...and add oil and gas..
Ski-Dog
Expert
If carbs are so great where did they go on cars / trucks. They are expensive. Fuel injection is cheaper on mass production once you get over the R&D costs. Engine runs more efficient, cleaner, easier starting and can add HP. For tinkerers its a bit of a downer unless you have expensive mapping equipment.
I had a 92 Polaris RXL and logged 14000 miles on the sled with zero EFI problems. And that system was archaic by todays standards.
I would imagine an EFI RX would increase fuel mileage by 15 % and should garner 5 to 10 hp if enough time is spent setting up in the R&D department.
I was disappointed that EFI was missing for 05.
The other big advantage - The absolute must have remote start capability. That would be good for a few bragging rights at the local stop.
I had a 92 Polaris RXL and logged 14000 miles on the sled with zero EFI problems. And that system was archaic by todays standards.
I would imagine an EFI RX would increase fuel mileage by 15 % and should garner 5 to 10 hp if enough time is spent setting up in the R&D department.
I was disappointed that EFI was missing for 05.
The other big advantage - The absolute must have remote start capability. That would be good for a few bragging rights at the local stop.
Ski-Dog: My buddy works in advanced planning and development at Yamaha. I've pushed the EFi topic on him for 3 years now. He flat out told me there is no HP improvement with EFI and most certanily not 5 to 10 hp you claim. Look at the bike, when it went to fuel injection it made the same Hp as the Carbed version.
For right now EFI only increases the Price and I'm sorry Boys the 2 MPG you might get better then what you get now doesn't outway the 800 to 1200 cost increase that will be added to the sled.
For right now EFI only increases the Price and I'm sorry Boys the 2 MPG you might get better then what you get now doesn't outway the 800 to 1200 cost increase that will be added to the sled.
SIMMER
TY 4 Stroke Master
Hey JTSRX....Can You Say
R-E-M-O-T-E----------S-T-A-R-T :?: :?: :?:
LOL
Gotta love Technology...EFI is just the next step. I do agree with the "more to go wrong" scenario. But Yamaha would be the only company I would trust to get it right. Now Arctic Crap....ZR800 or 900...I would still go Carb!! Even Doo is having all kind of problems with the SDI's. But I would have to say the throttle response, lack of choke and smoother delivery, and increased MPG would be enough for me to go for it.
R-E-M-O-T-E----------S-T-A-R-T :?: :?: :?:
LOLGotta love Technology...EFI is just the next step. I do agree with the "more to go wrong" scenario. But Yamaha would be the only company I would trust to get it right. Now Arctic Crap....ZR800 or 900...I would still go Carb!! Even Doo is having all kind of problems with the SDI's. But I would have to say the throttle response, lack of choke and smoother delivery, and increased MPG would be enough for me to go for it.
Totally Blue
Veteran
After owning a sled with EFI, I had a tough choice between going back to an EFI or the RX1, I of couse chose the RX1. However since I have owned an EFI sled I can honestly say I love it. I owned this sled for 5 years and never had a single problem. Always started on first or second pull even in below zero weather and after a long summer storage. It has never left me stranded. Also spot on acceleration with no bog that you get with some carbs. This is one area where Cat does have the advantage. In the care with Cat, there is no additional weight since it is batteryless. Eventually all sleds will make the move to EFI. It's just a matter of time. To control emissions EFI can be controlled much better than carbs do since you have to add additional parts to carbs in order to control emmissions which is why you don't see cars manufactured with carburetion any more. Sometimes changes are for the better. I just wish the RX1 came with EFI. It would have been worth the additional expense if any.
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