Frog Skins Warning! They Block Too Much Air! Cat 7000 Series

[tapex_07]

Agh I would like to say some bad words to you... We lost pretty much all the snow we had yesterday. Went from being -35F to 50f and rain in a couple days I mean what the ****.


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Man thats rough... Suppose to get warm starting tomorrow with rain Friday. Hope we don't lose much snow!!

 

[tapex_07]

which is why all modern cars have clutch fans that shut off while traveling.

Actually this is not true. A clutch fan does not know when the vehicle is traveling. It is engaged when the temp is to high, which can be at speed or any time the motor is running. RV's, light duty diesels pulling heavy trailers, especially in the mountains as you would know.

 

[stingray719]

Actually this is not true. A clutch fan does not know when the vehicle is traveling. It is engaged when the temp is to high, which can be at speed or any time the motor is running. RV's, light duty diesels pulling heavy trailers, especially in the mountains as you would know.

Correct, the fan is turned on by heat which is usually caused by low air flow AKA stopped or going slow. My Powerstroke while pulling above 10k altitude up steep passes will have the fan turn on for about 10 seconds on rare occasion I know this as a powerstroke electric fan is LOUD. Under normal operation it rarely comes on even in traffic. On the Viper the fan should never come on at anything but very low speed or stopped. If it does you have other issues than the fan speed or direction, and if it does overheat at speed then yes the fan reverse would make it worse.

I hate to hijack this thread for cooling discussion, lets please take this to PM or make a new thread.

 

[tapex_07]

NOT always low air flow or stopped or going slow will the fan kick on. IF THE COOLANT TEMP RISES ABOVE "X" TEMP THE FAN WILL KICK ON in attempt to cool down. Towing heavy, high air temps, a/c on, altitude, or bad fins on the a/c condenser/radiator can all be factors.

Yes the fan shouldn't ever kick on while riding, BUT it can still happen for that out of the ordinary condition.

 

[Ryno]

Put my first 500 miles on my new sled this week. Ran several test over 4 days morning and night. Intake temps ran 76-105 and coolant temps ran 165-205. The radiator frog skin made no difference all week. I rode up and back some of the same trails back to back and temps remains constant. The frog skin does not cause any issues.
Ove the 500 miles I averaged 15 mph riding pretty hard and saw speeds of 90-95 at 8700 rpm. Not bad for starting with 19 miles on my sled!!!
Love this sled and will be clutching and going to 24/49 gearing.
The riding area was Boulder junction area and then 125 mile trip around silver city.

 

[FrozenTows4]

Yeah, I may have jumped the gun to condemn the Frog Skins.
I'm thinking the frozen cooler was my main issue. Thought the radiator could handle it on it's own . Guess not. I'll see what my Crane Lake Minnesota test shows next weekend.

 

[Ryno]

I figured as much. Just thought I would post what I found in my test in case anyone cared.

 

[FrozenTows4]

Well, egg on my face! Sorry Frog Skinz. I ran virtually the same temperatures with, or without the Frog Skinz nose piece, at Crane Lake & Kabetogama Minnesota last week. It was the frozen cooler that bit me last time.

In very hard packed, fresh groomed trails, temperatures ran 185-200 with or without the Frog Skins.

Scratchers were the only thing that kept temperatures between 165-177 degrees. Frog Skins made no difference.
Sorry that I jumped the gun to condemn the Frog Skins.
Now if we could add rear coolers, like Cat's 4000, 6000, 8000, & 9000 series, these things wouldn't be as temperature finicky, on hard to medium pack trails, as they are. Why Yamaha/Cat thought that a single front cooler would be enough, on the Viper & 7000 series, is hard to comprehend.
I'll be investigating adding a rear cooler in the near future.

 

[cannondale27]

Well, egg on my face! Sorry Frog Skinz. I ran virtually the same temperatures with, or without the Frog Skinz nose piece, at Crane Lake & Kabetogama Minnesota last week. It was the frozen cooler that bit me last time.

In very hard packed, fresh groomed trails, temperatures ran 185-200 with or without the Frog Skins.

Scratchers were the only thing that kept temperatures between 165-177 degrees. Frog Skins made no difference.
Sorry that I jumped the gun to condemn the Frog Skins.
Now if we could add rear coolers, like Cat's 4000, 6000, 8000, & 9000 series, these things wouldn't be as temperature finicky, on hard to medium pack trails, as they are. Why Yamaha/Cat thought that a single front cooler would be enough, on the Viper & 7000 series, is hard to comprehend.
I'll be investigating adding a rear cooler in the near future.

Still think you have something going on if you overheated. I cannot get mine to overheat ever. At least 4 days in last two seasons riding in 45-50 deg weather and others -35 and hard as a rock trails. Are you sure the fan is working? No coolant leaks?

 

[FrozenTows4]

Still think you have something going on if you overheated. I cannot get mine to overheat ever. At least 4 days in last two seasons riding in 45-50 deg weather and others -35 and hard as a rock trails. Are you sure the fan is working? No coolant leaks?

The fan works as it should. I've heard it, for a second or two, when shutting down for a trail break. Coolant level has not changed, so no leaks. Temperature light did not come on and sled never went into limp mode.

On loose trail, or with scatchers down, temperature cycles between 165-177. Pretty much the middle of the gauge. This tells me the thermostat is keeping temperatures at normal operating temperatures.

When the temperature is 185-200, gauge 3/4+ black, that tells me the cooling system needs help.
Scatchers go down.

Or is this a mental thing? Is normal operating temperature 165-200+?
I'm comfortable running with the coolant gauge 1/2 black 165-177.
3/4+ black 185-200+, while going down the trail, makes me nervous. Or is this OK?
I'm still getting acquainted with only 1200 miles so far.

 

[bbquadrider]

Only way mine gets over 165 is if I let it idle ....on the trail never gets over 165....I have mpi turbo also

via big bad phone

 

[cannondale27]

I would not be concerned until 220+ many cars run at that temp all the time. Safety is in place and it does work before boil over.

 

[Dreamsover2]

To the OP, I have the Cat vented side panels and haven't ever had an issue personally. But I also don't have the rad frog, I was really thinking of getting it but now I prob won't. Thanks for the heads up. Also, I have NEVER seen my temp over 174* while riding ever. Even tonight my air intake temp was down between -9* to -5* (typically its really close to ambient air temp) and the sled ran at 161-168* for the last 50 miles on hard set up snow with out scratchers. Again this was MY experience. The Skidoo XP 154x2.25 (I know its a big lug sled, but using it as a reference to the conditions tonight) in our group had some real overheating issues on that last 50. Prob had to stop 4-5 times and let it cool down.

I wonder if the icing issue is due to a more casual rider? Steady even speed, easy over the bumps, and not to crazy. I have noticed that this style tends to "build up" more tunnel snow on any sled I've seen.. I ride pretty aggressive and am thinking it knocks the build up off before it becomes any kind of issue. Thoughts??? Or am I totally off?

Your intake air is normally near ambient?
I'd like to know what you have done to achieve this. My intake has been as high as 80-90 degrees above ambient @-20 degrees.

 

[tapex_07]

Yes I watch my intake temps almost as closely as my coolant. I run the "out of the hood snorkle", all the Cat vented panels, holes drilled under the head light.