FRUSTRATED,w/ Unpredictable front end.

[craze1cars]

I feel the sway bay should tie the two skis two together so they kind of work together.

I think that when the ground under the left ski is doing exactly the opposite of the ground under the right ski....the LAST thing you would ever want is for the left and right suspensions to work together.

Just be aware that disconnecting the swaybar will often cause the need for more front preload or higher rate front springs, since they can no longer share the force of a big hit like they used to. So you might bottom out the front a bit more frequently. Swaybar removal is not a standalone thing...you might still need to tweak other adjustments to make it work right.

And as a side note, I wouldn't put much stock in a comparison between a 1992 Panther and a new Attak.

Most importantly remember you have a HUGE number of adjustments to play with to try to figure out where the problem is, and each one interacts with the other. To name a few: Two front preloads that have nearly infinite possibilities, 3 different springs that can be changed to several different rates, 3 C-clip positions for the rear spring allowing a total of I believe 21 different preload settings, 3 different shocks that can get an infinite combination of valving/damping, ski alignment and types of skis, sway bar on/off/different sizes, multiple limiter strap positions, almost infinite transfer adjustment, and of course rider size, position, and driving skill. I'm sure I forgot a few others.

To further complicate things, with the unique riding conditions you describe, it sounds like you're trying to take a trail sled and make it into something it wasn't set up to do well from the factory. So you're starting over without the benefit of a factory setup that's at least close to being good. So MANY things will NEED to be changed. If I did my math right, you have to find the ONE out of approximately 243,628 different suspension combinations that your sled is capable of having. (I made up that number by the way, but I don't think it's unrealistic.)

In order to be successful in finding that best setup, you will need to take good notes, tackle it systematically, and change only ONE thing at a time and WRITE DOWN what improves or gets worse with each individual adjustment. Then review your notes and try some combinations. I think you'll find there is no one single magic bullet, and you'll just have to figure out the correct combo on your own. I wish you the best...

 

[ReX]

I just thought I'd voice my agreement with LazyBastard, craz1cars, and 4Fighter.

The first thing I would do is remove the sway bar.

When you have the sled leaned over and the ski on the ground hits a bump or firmer snow you want that ski to be compliant and be able to ride up and over the bump without kicking the sled over.

The 13mm sway bar does just the opposite. It couples both skis and ski suspensions together very well. This means instead of the ski riding up and over the bump, the suspension for both skis have to compress - just so the one ski can comply with the bump. Now both springs have to compress plus both shocks, plus there is some friction in the sway bar system when loaded up that hard so you've got more than twice the potential for the sled being kicked out of the lean.

Try it without the sway bar. I suspect for off trail riding it will do exactly what you want. On the trails on the other hand the sled will be very tippy in the corners and you'll have to lean much more.

Maybe you could rig up a quick disconnect system for it for on/off trail use.

 

[blue er]

sway bar removal get's my vote as well, always remove bars on the jeeps for severe off road use.
Good luck in your set up

 

[Yammerhead]

Another similar thread from quite a while ago. Hope there is some useful info in it for you.....

http://www.ty4stroke.com/viewtopic.php?t=10147&highlight=

 

[zipclean]

Gee and I some thought I was the only one complaining on the front ends????

 

[Mikecam]

Mine does what your talking about a little too. With the floats I found the more pressure I run made it worse. Very unnerving feeling. Like your in a boat. Hang in there and try some of the advice on here and let us know how your making out.

 

[zipclean]

O.K. unhooked the sway bay and was 300 times worse. Next checked ski alignment, was toed out 3/4", set it to 1/4" toe out, steers better, next let out limiter strap one more hole(last one) maybe a little better again.Still dips when and dives on crusty snow.Cranked up my ski springs another 3/8"( more pressure) hard to say if any difference.Will try some more tomorrow.Going to crank the skis a little tighter again and see if that holds the front end from falling into the corners.???

 

[Riceburner]

My Warrior dips and dives on crusty snow .

I do not have any of your other issues.

I think the only way out of the crusty snow issue is to install ski's with more flotation.

 

[zipclean]

Just got off pf the phone with a Yamaha dealer and two Japanese Factory techs are in our province( Sask.) testing the Phazer and also the Attak and apex.They are trying different kinds of shocks and springs on the front end of the Attak and Apex.He said they came with a whole arm full of springs and shocks and sway bars.Maybe they heard that these two units have front end problems in SNOW.I know that they test these sleds in Alaska,but on glacers whre there probably isn't alot of loose snow that time of year so the front end would act differently.Any way they are here testing now.

 

[zipclean]

Just talked again to dealer. Little guys say to tighten up limiter strap to second hole(from the tightest) and make sure your rear sag in is set right and should be much better from what they see in testing.They DO NOW realize the problem in crusty snow conditions and what I was saying about the unpredictable front end.Sounds the oposite of what I would try but they say it helps will try Sat.

 

[zipclean]

O.K. For off trail, field riding in mixed snow conditions.This is what seems to work pretty good.2006 Attak,Apex mountain skis,13mm bar,limiter strap second last hole from the tightest,transfer set to max,front ski springs screwed down to max. as per messurements in manual. That seems to have straightened out 85% of the dipping and diving front end.Got this recipe from the dealer that had the guys from Japan at his dealer testing the Attaks and Phazers.He said they came with arm loads of front springs and shocks and were trying all kinds of combos.He said that there might be more info or maybe some changes coming in the next few weeks.Will let us know if anything comes from this.Too bad those guys weren't here tonight they could try out the handle bar warmers( -41c tonight) .We had a huge blizzard last 48 hours ,about 12-15" of snow and 80klm winds. WOW!

 

[nate007]

The only problem I have experienced with my Apex is that on harder packed trails, when I went from throttle to braking, I got a little wiggle out of the front end. I added a set of Woody's 6" Dooleys - - -problem solved. I have found that messing with the rear suspension too much only causes it to be less forgiving in all around conditions. I do agree with adjusting the limiter strap, but too much adjustment can affect how it operates.
A friend of mine kept thinking that he needed to shorten his strap on his REV to keep the skis on the ground when launching during a drag race, only to find that it had too much weight on the front end and became unpredictible and hard to turn.
As for the fellas that are talking about removin the sway bar - - Wrong!!! The rock crawlers are going so slow and doing something totally different with their suspensions than we do with our sleds. Removing the sway bar will make the sled handle like a boat. The sway bar is designed to keep the sled flat in the corners, and help the skis stay on the ground in the bumps. Even the 13 mm sway bar can not exert enough torque to lift the other ski in bumpy stuff.
If you are having handling issues, the best place to start IMO, is with the factory set up for your weight/riding style, start with the alignment of the front end, and then start playing with the transfer rod and/or limiting strap.
If your limiting strap is tight when the sled is sitting still, you cannot expect it to handle as well as when the suspension is allowed to move with the terrain.
Sometimes I see people playing with stuff too much and wind up so far off that you almost need to tear it apart and start over!!!

Just my $.02
Nate

 

[**sj**]

big heavy sled in deep powder equals sinking rock unless you increase flotation and make it easier to get on top of and stay on the snow..

1) powder ski's like simmons 1 or gen 2's, powder pros or slydog powderhound ski's would be my first move..

2)add a set of a arm protectors which also help increase flotation

3)pull the limiter strap up to increase the rails attack angle

4)set transfer near max and set front springs tighter