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Great news from Dynojet!

I've tuned literally thousands of vehicles and there hasn't been a single one yet that hasn't shown improvement over the OEM tuning. The OEMs are always on the convservative side with fuel and spark. They have to be. They do not know under what conditions the vehcile will be used. True sometimes peak power increases on certain vehicles may only be a few HP and too many times people look at that and say it's no good. What they miss is the 85 ft/lbs of torque you got them below peak power.
Canned maps are never the ultimate as stated before, no 2 engine combinations are exactly the same. You can get close, but not perfect using canned maps.
Certain types of vehciles can have huge performance gains and not show a single increase in HP.
One example of this is a 2005/2006 Ford Mustang GT.
I can tweak one table and you'd swear up and down I gave it another 50HP when it will show 0HP change on a dyno. Of course I can tweak other stuff and get HP/TQ increases too.

I have the Yamaha factory tuning software for the R1, by looking at the factory maps, it's clear to me there's alot left on the table and I don't think the Apex is much different.

Also, there will be another EFI tuning tool out for the Apex before long.
Full Individual cylinder fuel control based on RPM, TP, ECT, boost and altitude, USB, graphical display, multiple maps switchable on the fly, full built-in datalogging, wide band feedback control are a few of the features in it.
 

This looks like a good informative post so…I’ll jump in.

There are several such devices on the market that do the same thing and are improving about every month. There is even a kit to make your own. Nobody really explained it but these devices connect after the stock ECU and have absolutely no influence on the stock board. If the unit fails or you have a problem – you simply unplug and nobody is the wiser for warranty. Also if the unit fails the sled will default back to stock maps.

You should really call it a cheater as it simply takes the signal AFTER it leaves the ECU and simply changes the squirt time or the how long the injectors stay open. :drink:

Can you save fuel….I wouldn’t think so? Yamaha jets the sleds lean as they can from the bottom to just about where a MJ would take over on a standard carb. They do this to meet emissions and the have the top end rich so you don’t lock it up on those ½ hour lake runs. Want to save on gas – get rid of those aftermarket clutch kits and get it as soft as you can – just so it doesn’t lug. I let mine slightly upshift at cruise speed so it drops the rpms. :o|

Ok..so the lower cost units can adjust the setting in about 4 spots by just hitting buttons. As you go up in price the adjustability changes. The Power Commander markets the best.

FI is much better than carbs but if you don’t fully understand carbs there is really no sense changing the stock setup. If you are a performance buff and add some HP stuff, then you’re going to need more fuel and then an aftermarket deal is required.

Good toy to play with. There was some mention of future advancements and there will be – but most 440 race sleds have 3 choices of ignition curves today.
 
BlueMax said:
Freddie

I reread my posts and I am not trying to get into a internet battle over the merits of a power commander. I applaud you for taking the time to share your vast knowledge on this forum. I am just curious what maginitude of horsepower increase you would expect from adding a power commander to an Apex. I know you have done some testing already on a stock Apex and were not able to get the results you wanted with the current controllers available.

Another off topic question. In general, do you see more power increase on FI motorcycles from the power commander timing changes or fuel mapping? Which brand of motorcycles seem to have the poorest as delivered fuel mapping?

Once again, thanks for sharing!
Click to expand...

BlueMax...I don't consider this a battle at all. The reason why this is the best snowmobile website on the internet is because there are no idiots, well a few here and there that ruin all the fun and learning for all of us.

If we were install a Power Commander on a stock Suzuki Hayabusa wirth stock exhaust and no airbox mod, we would see generally a 4 to 5 HP increase at peak and as much as 6 to 7 HP through the midrange. We have also experienced, rather my customer have, better fuel mileage as well. I referance to your query about which motorcycle has the poorest fuel mileage, I don't ride enough on the street to have enough experience to comment on that one...sorry. Frankly, our race bikes, we want to worst possible fuel mileage that we can get! The reason being is because this means that we are ramming a a lot of air into our CNC ported cylinder heads and thereby a bunch of fuel thereby making a larger explosion in the combustion chamber thereby resulting in BIG power.

If I had some experience on any of the FI Yamaha snowmobiles, I would naturally be happy to share them with you. I do not have this data yet however. I would imagine that we would like to see about the same percentage of increase as the bikes though.

Regarding the post about dyno room temperatures and weather condition, I could simply open the doors on a real cold winter day to the dyno room and test under those conditions. For the bikes, I have a large everglades boat style fan at the front of my dyno. Although this pales in comparison to 100+ MPH air movement, it at least puts some air into the airboxes. What we do on the snowmobiles and motorcycles is during the last few runs we spray cold compressed air from the compressor into the airbox. If power goes up, we know we are jetter for the field. If it drops, we know we have to enrichen. As far as tuning in the summer time on sleds, we have a pretty good idea of how much to richen for the winter time. Keep in mind too that the airbox air temperature sensors will tell the stock ECU to richen up to a point.

Freddie
 
Thanks for the education guys, from those of us on the sidelines. I learn alot. Yamadoo
 
I'm told power commanders for apex should start shippping in june~july..
 
Not stirring things up, just adding to how nice it is to electronically change fuel curves or maps:

I have a Boondocker on my F7. Ran it on the Dyno added fuel where it needed it and pulled some away at the top. It was about 40 degrees out and after final adjustments- 3 pulls all at about 147 hp. Baseline was 142. I don't know if Boondocker will make anything for 4 strokes yet, but they are a solid unit with alot out in the field.
 
So...have they made one to fit the Apex electrical plugs?

Guess he would pre map the thing over at dynotech, as he has the better (best) dyno ?

Have not seen the Phazer - I would imagine the Apex has more sensors so the plugs may not fit the Phazer. :o|

Will they be at the discounted pricing - or at what price?
 
RJH said:
So...have they made one to fit the Apex electrical plugs?

Guess he would pre map the thing over at dynotech, as he has the better (best) dyno ?

Have not seen the Phazer - I would imagine the Apex has more sensors so the plugs may not fit the Phazer. :o|

Will they be at the discounted pricing - or at what price?
Click to expand...


No one knows pricing yet. Soon I hope though.
 
RJH, they are making the ones with the correct Apex electrical plugs as we speak. These motors definitely make more peak hp when leaned down on top end.
 
SRXspec

Thanks for that info - I wonder if they will have one for the Phazer? :Rockon:

How would you have leaned down an Injected Apex, to find out that it made more top end HP?

Under what load, what part of the country and temperature did you test this?

Thanks

low flying missile
I do understand your point and it is a good one. You make good sense....But I have to laugh ;)! comparing a Harley engine to a Yamaha engine is like comparing a ...... :o| well I can't think of an example.....you should not even use them in the same sentence.

I like your point - there is always room to improve.
 
RJH, I simply tested a air box with less restriction in it on our dynojet track dyno in back to back passes with no other changes made besides the air box. The dynojet track dyno is an inertia dyno similar to Freddie's engine dyno, except it gives you the HP going through to the rear axle on the track. The gain that I saw at the track showed exactly as I expected it would with a leaner air fuel ratio.
 
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