Hey, Read this Newbies:Cubby's ECP Kit

[Cubby's RX-1]

Hey new guys, I was once a newbie to this forum as were all of us and I have been on many other forums from car audio to lowriding so I too was very skeptical about info on this forum. HOWEVER THIS FORUM IS DIFFERENT THAN ANY FORUM I HAVE BEEN ON. For example I learned the easy way to change my hy-fax and how to get rid of the ski lift in corners from this forum. The people who contribute to this forum really and truely want to help you and everyone else in here. Having said this I want to tell you newbies why I go off when I see a post about if the ECP kit works.
First, I am in no way connected to ECP nor to I get anything cheaper for promoting Freddies product. In fact I paid more for the kit than you will because we had a snow storm here and I next day aired the kit to myself and paid for that expensive shipping to try out the kit.
Back in October Freddie, the owner of Eastern Cycle Performance, posted his dyno findings about a sled with K&N filters on it. It was very informative and easy for us laymen to understand. I read this post and thought it was way too good to be true. Then I thought about all the help I recieved on this forum in the past so I took a chance and bought the kit.
In Freddies initial post he didnt say he had a air kit for sale, he just posted his dyno findings. In fact I had to google search to find his phone number on his web site. So we all bombarded Freddie with orders and the kit really did what Freddie claimed it would. And trust me I have been burned by after market claims before, but the kit had to work because dyno's dont lie.
Time goes by and some of the guys on here(not me) with kits started complaining about losing top end speed. A normal after market company would say " too bad, I got your money" but Freddie didnt. In fact he went and did a ton of reasearch to try and help these guys with there loss of top speed, and then posted on this forum some solutions to the problem. One of which was clutch alignment and how the extra power from his kit exagerated the already misaligned clutches. My sled was at my dealer for the rivet recall when this happened so I had my dealer check my clutch alignment. My dealer found them to be misaligned and my top speed on the dream meter (the Yamaha speedo for you newbies) went from 126 to 133. Wow Freddie was right again. So the loss of top speed guys were finding the other problems with there sleds from Freddies info and then blameing the ECP kit for the loss of top speed was no longer an issue.
Freddie has also posted his dyno findings on this forum and has helped us for free. The TPS switch and then the Dynarex crankcase EVAC system of which he made no money on. So I did the EVAC system and posted pictures, how to do it, and gave part numbers for the parts. Why? to try and return some of the help that I got from this forum. Heck I even sent a couple of guys some parts for the EVAC system because they couldnt find them at thier local parts store. Because thats what we do on this forum, help one another. I have always posted on this forum when I go on a trip somewhere so anyone who is skeptical can ride my sled and see what the ECP kit has done to my sled. I dont do this to boost Freddies sales, I do this to help out the guys on this forum. So newbies, The moral to this story is???????- Cubby

 

[Yamahnator]

Cubby

So newbies, The moral to this story is???????-

I think the real moral of the story is "why we should use paragraphs"...

Add some breaks in there cubby so it's an easier read.

 

[Cubby's RX-1]

Dude, I did indent and try to make paragraphs, It shows up on the post a reply screen but not on the actual post. So how does it look now??? This is the only way I was able to indent, by using my favorite emoticon----Cubby

 

[SUPERTUNER]

Cubby...your $50.00 check is in the mail!

But thanks is also in order!

Freddie

 

[ReX]

Cubby,

I'm a mechanical engineer and I've been building custom cars, off-road trucks, snowmobiles and race cars for over 20 years. I've also produced detailed dynamic computer models of snowmobile CVT transmissions that if I plug in the dyno results for an engine I can dial a clutch setup in one pass on the computer (sometimes a minor real world tweak is required) - including optimizing reserve torque at cruise (backshift), and belt clamping for efficiency.

So, I understand power and torque and how it transmits through a CVT very well. I don't dispute at all that the ECP kit improves power dramatically on the dyno, nor that it improves real life acceleration. (in fact I'll probably buy the kit - my new vehicles don't tend to remain stock for long)

I can tell you without a doubt that if everything else is unchanged and something is done to the engine that improves power at the currently clutched rpm, the sled will go faster. The rpms will be a little higher at the same time.

If it doesn't do this, either the power falls off at top speed in the real world (at speed), or the extra torque produced has caused the engine to shift a little and the clutch alignment is now not as good. Those really are the only two possibilities.

I have seen this problem with my built Polaris sleds in the past. Since I know the clutch alignment was spot on when I put it together and then after a couple of WOT runs it's out, I know shifting of the engine can and does occur. Looking at the improvements in low end torque there would clearly be much more tension in the belt in the 0-10 mph range (low gear ratios where the forces are max), pulling the clutches together significantly more than the stock setup.

I'm leaning towards this being the cause for some people's loss of top end, but no one has really 100% figured out what is happening yet. There have been enough people complaining about the problem that the loss of top speed does seem to occur in some cases.

The other thing that I haven't figured out is since the peak hp doesn't change much, why is there so much improvement in acceleration. I believe it happens, just don't understand why. Until I pick up my sled I won't have a clue, but I'm guessing either the clutching doesn't allow peak hp rpm very quickly (over or under), or the engine takes a while to "clean out" and make power.

The other thing I'm personally concerned about both without and especially with the kit is having proper crankcase ventilation (I like to keep sledding when it's close to -40°) - but that's a whole other can of worms...

The final thing I should say is Freddie seems like a great guy who has put tons of time, effort and money into optimizing this kit. With all of the positive results posted here it is clear his kits really do work.

Steve

 

[RobX-1]

Okay Almost RX-1, to address you concerns, all I had to do was use the search option on this forum. Below are two links. In the first, Freddie explains why his kit does not improve top end speed as much as it does with low and mid-range accelearation.

http://www.rx1.info/viewtopic.php?t=3265&highlight=

In this next link, DynaRex and Cubby discuss the EVAC system which will address your concern with proper crankcase venting. I have the ECP kit and there is NO question the kit flat out rocks. If you decide to leave your new RX-1 stock and happen to line up with another RX-1 that has one, you will almost win (no pun intended...well maybe just a little but it's all good ).

http://www.rx1.info/viewtopic.php?t=3844&highlight=

 

[Cubby's RX-1]

Hey Almost RX-1, I am not a mechanical engineer nor do I claim to be. So these questions you are asking should be directed to Freddie and I am sure he will read this and respond. But hopefully in some other post, not the post I made to show the new guys how we help one another in this forum. All I know is the kit works, It does everything that Freddies very first post called "dyno day" said it would,and Freddie has truely helped many of us on this forum acheive a better running RX-1. Again I do not know how or why it works (thats Freddies job) and I am not getting paid to say this. -----Cubby

 

[RobX-1]

Here is a link to a better post from Cubby that explains his EVAC system.

http://www.rx1.info/viewtopic.php?t=3883&highlight=

 

[SUPERTUNER]

Cubby,

I'm a mechanical engineer and I've been building custom cars, off-road trucks, snowmobiles and race cars for over 20 years. I've also produced detailed dynamic computer models of snowmobile CVT transmissions that if I plug in the dyno results for an engine I can dial a clutch setup in one pass on the computer (sometimes a minor real world tweak is required) - including optimizing reserve torque at cruise (backshift), and belt clamping for efficiency.

If it doesn't do this, either the power falls off at top speed in the real world (at speed), or the extra torque produced has caused the engine to shift a little and the clutch alignment is now not as good. Those really are the only two possibilities.

I'm leaning towards this being the cause for some people's loss of top end, but no one has really 100% figured out what is happening yet. There have been enough people complaining about the problem that the loss of top speed does seem to occur in some cases.

The other thing that I haven't figured out is since the peak hp doesn't change much, why is there so much improvement in acceleration. I believe it happens, just don't understand why. Until I pick up my sled I won't have a clue, but I'm guessing either the clutching doesn't allow peak hp rpm very quickly (over or under), or the engine takes a while to "clean out" and make power.

The other thing I'm personally concerned about both without and especially with the kit is having proper crankcase ventilation (I like to keep sledding when it's close to -40°) - but that's a whole other can of worms...

The final thing I should say is Freddie seems like a great guy who has put tons of time, effort and money into optimizing this kit. With all of the positive results posted here it is clear his kits really do work.

Steve

I will reply in the order of the paragraphs above:
Paragraph 1: I want to offer you a job but I am afraid that I cannot afford you! I need to know more about this dynamic computer model for clutching. I am certain that the OEM's must use something along these lines. I once began a project for making a "CVT clutch dyno". I just never finished it. Not even sure it would have enlightened me to anything of worth.

Paragraph 2: Making more power/torque will pull the clutch alignments out easier. I concurr and is what I have been saying for quite some time. The folks that have experinced the most top speed loss I would be willing to bet were also the same ones that were on the ragged edge of having the clutches out of alignment prior to the Air Kit install.

Paragraph 3: I am 100% certain that clutch alignment is absolutely, positively an issue here as I have had some customers report back that their clutches were indeed out after I posted the details of this. I also had a sled provided to me by a customer that I checked the clutch alignments on and found to be quite good and that sled screwed on top. I had another sled available to me as well and it was not as fast on top end...that sleds clutches were not as close as the prior sled. Cubby did this as well.

Paragraph 4: I have nothing in the way of physical tests to corroborate my claims here regarding the RX1 but tests with our motorcycles, concluded that the harmonics inside the air box would affect CV carburetors a LOT differently than mechanical slide style carburetors. Once the snowmobile industry sees more CV style carburetors, they will soon begin to catch on about what CV carbs respond to that mechanical slide carbs do not and vice versa. Being the RX1 was the first to have CV carbs, it is very clear to me why some folks are thinking wrong regarding this as they are adopting mechanical slide carb thoughts and technology to a CV carb environment. These tests included sensors inside airboxes to measure positive and negative pressures that are present at differing RPM's along with an on board data retrieval that allowed us to download the data to inspect after the runs.

Paragraph 5: There are ways around crankcase evacuation problems. If need be contact me if this becomes an issue but I don't think it will.

Paragraph 6: Thank you.

Freddie
www.easterncycleperf.com

 

[1xr]

Guys, I had the filter kit on my sled all winter and 3000 miles. Everything that Fredie said about gains are not fiction.
Some of the claimed of speed loss, are not the kits fault, but I believe is the design of the hood and vents. Yamaha designed the sled to draw air in a what seems like a bad spot. I have played with different things around the filters that affects the air flow, and seen results. So don't blame freddie.

 

[Convert]

They blame Freddie cause they know he has the knowledge to figure out what else is wrong and post an answer out here I don't even own an ECP kit yet but I do know how hard he has worked to make this a success just read some of his responses everytime someone challenges his product he goes out of his way to research the issue and give them an accurate and very extensive post on what else can be the cause of their problems :ORC He has gone above and beyond what most consider good customer support in my opinion. My hats off to this man 8) You'll be getting my order sometime this summer! Now about that discount :lol: JK