How light can you make a Nytro?

[rlcofmn]

Just weighed mine again, as always with un accurate scales. I had not weighed it with the new track so I was curious. 2 gallons of gas, otherwise ready to ride (tools, spare belt, tow rope, helmet light) it came in at a embarasing 544. The track is a real killer in weights but it's still 30 plus pounds heavyer than I'd like to see it. :exc:

This weight isn't for your tube chassis correct? How light were you thinking you could get that down to? That is way more exotic than I could go, but it would be interesting to hear.

I found a thread in another forum about the carbon fiber C3 Nytro a company planned to built. Their goal was reducing the weight by 100lbs. Seems like they should be able to go lower than that? Too exotic and expensive for me.

Yeah that is for my converted shorty. Using the Timbersled is a few pounds heavyer than the cat skid as well though. But for boosted it's kinda a must, even with it I can't keep the skis down. But for a non boosted sled I would not run a Timbersled anyways. Someday I'll build a skid I actually like. But I am over critical of skids. I would be happy at 565-575 with a full trail tank on this sled. I think that is a great weight for sled as reliable/powerfull and capable of most any terrain.

For the tubie, the goal is 525 wet. That will be another summers project, then I've got the next one in the dreaming stages as well

 

[swelly]

The Skinz A arms make a night and day difference. I can speak first hand. I have the kit on my 09, and I put 250 miles on my sons 2011 last weekend that is bone stock. Probably 70% was un-tracked stuff. I was dog tired by the end of Sunday, and really missed the flickability of mine.

Buy a front end kit!

It is worth the money, and not to mention all of your 2 smoke pals will wonder how come it will lay over and side hill so well.

 

[rlcofmn]

Yes, I've been extremely critical of the Nytro, so much so that they repeatedly threatened to ban me off this site. My focus with my Nytro was cross country racing and it isn't very good for that with the stock front end. Anyway.... my Nytro is very reliable, powerful and paid for and since I've got a different sled to race I can look at getting a mountain sled since all my buddies ride them.

Interesting comments about Matt's 600, he had either an eTech or an SDI. I'd be looking at the even less powerful carb'd 600 strictly due to it being the most reliable 2-stroke Ski-doo makes and it being reasonable in price.

The weight breakdown is encouraging. Nothing too exotic there. I was hoping for that! Guessing that the wet weight of the modified Nytro would come out around 540 which puts it in line with the wet weight of the 800's and their close to 12 gallon gas tanks.

Question I have is after all the weight is removed does it make a noticeable difference? A majority of the Nytro's weight is all right in front of you like a big ball. It is a top heavy sled, even worse when you run a Trail Tank like I have. I think a forward swept a-arm kit is a must do mod. Does it make a night and day difference? As far as boost I don't need it because we ride low elevations in Alaska and I want stock reliability and ease of use.

I've got to check out some more build threads and start adding up the costs of the suggested mods. My tunnel will need to be modified so that's one more thing to add to my list.

I'm not sure what Matts 600 was, I think he got 2 new etecs this year for Jackson? I wish I had a improved sled to run against them this year but since both my sleds fall into MOD class I will obviously be running the Turbo. I did find it very interesting though to see how the Nytro compared to him on 2 different sleds.

There are plenty of things to hate about the Nytro for sure, But the engine is so incredible that IMO it outweighs those things and I chose to make the sled what I want it to be. There are ways to make a Nytro a more than capable sled without spending a fortune, I am building a Sled for my buddy in Valdez as we speak with that goal in mind. A skid swap is a big one, I used a 09 assault torsion skid in this one mainly because I had it and it is far better in every way than the stocker. Track swap is another must do, for this one I am using a 155 CE. For the obvious reasons and got a great deal on it. But there are a lot lighter tracks, I did not like my 153 HCR powerclaw but I loved my 141. Non boosted I would probably look at a lighter track than the 2.5's. Front end, well it's not cheap but it makes the Nytro work. This sled is not getting any crazy custom work but it will be a 8k dollar 575 lb turbo sled.

 

[AKrider]

I know Matt got a new sled or sleds this year but I'm not sure what type of Doo?

That's weird thing about the Nytro, no matter how frustrated I get with it I still find things to like. It has potential, the trick will be how to extract it without costing a small fortune. I'm encouraged by the replies on this thread. I figured I'd quickly be into the $20,000 realm (including the original cost of the sled) but its not looking that way.

The side hilling has me concerned. My Nytro is way harder to sidehill compared to my IQR but everything I've read says the SPG front end will fix that. Does a 16" wide track fit without much modification? Is it realistic to eliminate the radiator? Seems like a good way to drop some weight up high. Besides, the radiator doesn't seem work very well as my sled turns the light on when riding on hard packed trails at low speed.

Here are some interesting things about weight in this thread I found with a google search. http://www.snowandmud.com/forum/460/pol ... 280-3.html

More wet weight info:
http://supertraxmag.com/article.asp?nid=489

Snowgoer weights without gas:
http://www.snowgoer.com/snowmobiling-fe ... s-weights/

Snowmobile.com 1 gallon of fuel wet weights:
http://www.snowmobile.com/manufacturers ... -1365.html

These weights are showing me the Nytro can be brought down into the realm of the older 800's in weight. Those sleds didn't feel or ride heavy. Converting my short track into a mountain sled may not be such a bad idea!

 

[beeze455]

I have done just about every mod and a nice track with a nice skid is the way to go. When we have a solid understanding on where to mount the float skid the setup it will be one of the best options also. The yamaha skid is so heavy and packs full of snow to make it even worse.

I like to know how I am spending my money and save by being creative. I have 0 fabrication tools.

Skinz front end - 2k

or

$800 challenger track + $600 cat skid + $200 pilot skis + $100 light weight exhaust + $200 lithium battery + $10 cat e-brake + $40 gear change + $50 in beer

A skinz seat and running boards for 1k just seems like way too much.

I probably have one of the lightest nytros on here and probably did it the cheapest with the least amount af fabrication. I cut my my undertunnel piece with a skill saw...LOL

My sled is getting phase 2 and I would like to drop another 50 off it. I figure she is 485ish dry.

 

[Off Trail Mike]

AKrider:

I think you have to consider the Nytro with the SPG is far superior to a Summit for side hilling and keeping it on its side. I am not a big fan of the <2013 Summits, as its almost as unbalanced as the stock Nytro. I'd choose the polaris first. If you look at the 2013 Summit, with an anti-sway bar equipped 36" ski stance and a suspension and track that twist, its pretty safe to say BRP understood the Summit had some major handling issues. To my knowledge, you won't be getting these features on your bone stock 600 either.

Weight is important, don't get me wrong, but the combo of power and handling is where its at forme. I am going to go to Exit shocks on my Nytro which is a weight gain.....I don't have any problems with this because of the overall improvement in ride and handling. Its all about finidng the balance you are looking for.

OTM

 

[AKrider]

Breeze,
I really like what you've done with your sled. I read through your build over on BCR last night. I am very pleased to see how much weight can be removed for a reasonable cost.

OTM,
Your right, the Summit Sport 600 wouldn't come with the weird rear skid and track and I see that as a good thing. I suspect I'd break that rear skid pretty quickly. I'm surprised they are even going that route since the stock rMotion rear skid twists too much and had durability issues in the Iron Dog this year.

A couple years ago I rode my neighbors '09 Hillclimb edition Summit and didn't know anything about the side hilling issue people complain about. I thought it side hilled great. But that was compared to my '05 Vector with a 136 M-10. The biggest issue I had with the Summit was where to put my feet. My '12 Polaris IQR is very easy to side hill, in fact the first time I rode it in the mountains I was shocked by how little effort it took. I've read the RMK's are the same way but I don't have any faith in Polaris engines as I've read they are having issues even getting 3000 miles out of them due to the lack of oil being injected into the bottom ends. My pre-mix 600R motor is a piece of sh!t due to the center bearings not getting enough oil.

It is looking like it would cost me less money to modify my Nytro than sell it and buy a new sled. Short track Nytros are not worth much in Alaska because very few people want them. When I started this thread I didn't think I'd actually consider modifying my Nytro. That is a surprise.

 

[rlcofmn]

No Nytro is worth much in AK Me and 2 buddys have picked up sleds for less than 4k in the last year. 2 being shortys and 1 being a MTX. They are all around 3k miles but who cares on a Nytro. Better off to take advantage of the low resale than to be on the other end of it. Maybe someday Yamaha will build a factory mountain worthy sled and there values will come back up to where they should be for a sled that lasts as long as they do. But at todays rate, people dont really seem to care about how long a engine lasts.

As for the cooling system. You will have to add a real tunnel cooling system to get rid of the Radiator. But it is one of the top mods I like for the Nytro. The factory cooling system is a joke. There are easy ways to make a good cooling system, but I have also made fixtures to put coolers in a stock chassis. Just never finished the project due to too many other projects.

 

[AKrider]

Yeah, I'd just hate to sell my Nytro and give it away when disposable, 2-3 year old, low milage RMK 600's are selling for $4500 - $5500. That's just the market up here. Besides, I'd get even less because I raced my Nytro and most people won't touch it.

I've got an old S-chassis Summit frame in my yard with full length tunnel coolers. I was thinking maybe it wouldn't be too much work to use those rather than the radiator? I've also got some Polaris running board coolers. While running boards aren't in the best location for hard packed conditions they work great for keeping the boards melted off. I liked them on my Vector.

 

[HYFLYR]

Like rick said, tunnels coolers are a must if you delete the rad, which I also recommend. It cleans up the engine bay, lowers the cg, and gets heat out of the engine compartment. Also have a few laying around if you need one, stock cooler that is for the mtx's. I have board coolers on my sled now and honestly cant wait to get them off this summer, im changing the whole tunnel again. They just build too much slush and start holding snow which has been a pita for me. Again, thats my opinion as its a pain but they do work well and keep the motor nice and cool.
If you need a SPG front suspension, I also have one laying around that I can make you a deal on if you want. They change everything about the sleds handling, a little spendy but night and day.
I would stay away from the 16" tracks as well. A lot of work to make it work right and not rub, they dont handle well, harder to hold a carve or sidehill, more rotating weight and if your not boosted only slows you down.
Im not sure if anyone mentioned them but skis are a place to lose weight too. Obviously you will need to upgrade your rtx skis and I think there are a lot of good skis out there, just finding a set you like or think you will and go from there. Polaris grippers work well, look great, lose weight, and can find them cheap.
Good luck and have fun with the build.

 

[Off Trail Mike]

No Nytro is worth much in AK Me and 2 buddys have picked up sleds for less than 4k in the last year. 2 being shortys and 1 being a MTX. They are all around 3k miles but who cares on a Nytro.

Rick:

That's just depressing...if I could get any nytro with 3000 miles for 4k, I'd be building almost as many sleds as you! Almost...cause I still like to sleep!

OTM

 

[AKrider]

Good point about the running board coolers. I forgot how slushy the boards can get on a deep snow day when it is cold. Too bad about the 16" wide track, I was hoping it could be put on without much work and clearance issues.

Hyflyer,
Sent you a PM

 

[rlcofmn]

No Nytro is worth much in AK Me and 2 buddys have picked up sleds for less than 4k in the last year. 2 being shortys and 1 being a MTX. They are all around 3k miles but who cares on a Nytro.

Rick:

That's just depressing...if I could get any nytro with 3000 miles for 4k, I'd be building almost as many sleds as you! Almost...cause I still like to sleep!

OTM

My first one was a 08 MTX, like new condition, 340 miles, 11 months old for $5500 Then the shorty was $3500. Yeah if you keep a half way decent eye out for them up here they go cheap.

 

[MOUNTAIN VMAX4]

162x16x2.5

I run 162x16x2.5 I used to run a 155x15x2.4 there is no comparison I am naturally aspirated and clutched and geared right it will not slow you down going up hill you will just climb way higher, yeah is is a pita because it rubs I am going to use carriage bolt from the inside to hold my chain case on for more room in the tunnel did that on my old rx1 and it worked great a lot of people dont like the 16s but I could not go anywhere near the places I go now with the 16 wide when I had the 15, Just my 2 cents

 

[AKrider]

Is the main rubbing area for the 16" track at the chaincase? What I like about the 16" is I can run a shorter track but still maintain the floatation of a longer 15" track. I'm thinking of going in the 144-154" range. A couple years ago I put a 16" in an old, 1996 Summit 670 and you could tell it had more floatation than the 15 it replaced. In that sled I didn't think there were any downsides but I have read numerous times over the years that some guys don't think the added floatation is worth what they give up to side hill.

Looking at some of the links to Yamaha skid frame weights, why are they so heavy? The '08 Pro-Action I know was a heavy skid. I had a 121" version in my Vector and it was also weak. The newer '10 rear skid looks like it should be light but is not. Is the steel thicker, lower quality and heavy?

I've been pouring over everything I can find regarding wet weights and on paper, the Nytro isn't that bad. I know from experience that Yamaha's are way heavier out in the field. This article
http://www.snowmobile.com/manufacturers ... -1195.html
weighed the sleds after they rode them and the MTX picked up over 70lbs! My 121 Nytro forms a lot of ice on the stud protectors. Since the MTX doesn't have them, it must be collecting in the tunnel? In wet snow I noticed my a-arms pack with snow and they mentioned that as well. I think top of the tunnel heat exchangers would help reduce the tunnel ice since the top of the tunnel would melt away the snow. Seems like not having the exhaust in the tunnel would help reduce ice build up but that isn't an option unfortunately.