I rode the new 2011 Yamaha's and........

[Banks93]

The 170 plus HP catagory is such a limited market, that Yamaha would alienated a large percentage of riders that want a Premium trail sled that is affordable to operate and insure.

Look at the polls on here. look at the posts on here. 142 of 216 said they were not buying a sled of any brand. 47% of 270 say they were impressed with the lineup. So 270 people are the vast majority? You say everyone wants that? 270 is about 6 dealers allocation of sleds. Far from everyone. I think Yamaha has done alot more research that just looking at a message board.

Unemployment is over 10%. You have Obama and his spending machine driving this Country into unreversable debt loads. How can any company justify an all new product release, spending millions on R&D, marketing, and release when the economy is in the tank and no one is working with many more losing jobs everyday? And on a seasonal product that would appeal to a VERY LIMITED consumer base? Look at it with a realistic perspective of a company and its objectives and quit biching. Go buy an Arctic Cat with 170hp and see how you like that.

Sales are down nearly 50% across the board for every manufacturer. You don't think price increases are coming from everyone to offset their losses in sales?

Fast nickels or slow dimes. They are taking the dime approach.

 

[drifter]

No lesson in economics, just stating fact and Yamaha's reasoning.

Not one of our customers in the 6+ years I have been here have complained about needing more power. Buy a Super or Turbo Charger if you want more power. You are in a small percentage of 170hp wannabes. Yamaha delivered more power and a lighter feel in their sleds. Unless you throw it over you back and carry it to the trail, weight is better on the trail in my opinion. Go try a Doo in the woops. Bucks more than a rodeo horse with sore nuts.

 

[SledFreak]

No lesson in economics, just stating fact and Yamaha's reasoning.

Not one of our customers in the 6+ years I have been here have complained about needing more power. Buy a Super or Turbo Charger if you want more power. You are in a small percentage of 170hp wannabes. Yamaha delivered more power and a lighter feel in their sleds. Unless you throw it over you back and carry it to the trail, weight is better on the trail in my opinion. Go try a Doo in the woops. Bucks more than a rodeo horse with sore nuts.

No need for SC or Turbo, just a sled that competes with the other flag ship sleds. AC's 1000 2 strokes are 172hp. The ski-doo MachZ as of 2007 was 172hp. The 800 etec is 160hp @430lbs to this Apex of 580lbs.... With the power to weight of the e-tec it equates to 170hp. See what I am saying here...

As far as your customers, then you must have a small customer base that wants a real performance base sled. The 800 E-tec is 160hp and Cats 800R motor is now 162. Plus, they still have there 172hp 1000 motor. We won't even talk about the turbo, which is 183hp 4 stroke and it's a twin to bout... and before you say it..... No, I do not want a Cat.... Just a Yamaha sled that is comparable in hp and weight......

For the amount of money Yamaha want's for their performance sled, they could at least give the consumers what they want. They don't seem to have a problem doing that in their bike world... They just seemed to want to get by in the sled world. All Yamaha seems to be doing is stretching their engineering, just to get them by.... IMO,This sled the way it stands will not be competetive within the next 2 years... We still need to wait for the other OEM's to see what they are coming out with.... They just may have a real "game changer"

 

[Sled Dog]

I want 170 hp.
I want a lighter sled.
I want a new seat.
I want a longer track.
The price is too high

You want all this and you're complaining about the price now??

BS drifter.... If they would have done what everyone wanted which was this AND IT WAS STATED IN THEIR SURVEY WHAT THEY WANTED, since the National manager stated in his video was people wanted A LIGHTER SLED AND MORE POWER. I know when I completed the survey, I said I wanted 170-180hp and bring it in at 500lbs. I know the EPS will be great as I have it on my Grizzly 700. Having a well handling/riding sled is just part of the package. Not offered as an upgrade???? The 2011 sled will be better, I have no doudbt it is, but they did not deliver what everyone wanted. If they would have, people would not be bitching about the price so much. They would find the money some how..... You can sell it the way you want, but people are tired of Yamahas marketing techniques. People want lighter and more hp. There is no reason why they can not deliver this.... All they did was stretch their engineering.... Who knows when they will actually deliver a sled capable of being the top gun. IMO, it was 2006 and 2007, after that, they became 2nd and third place as far as performance is concerned. I am not stating this sled is bad, but I really believe that Yamaha did not deliver what people have been asking for since the Apex. Really, the RX-1 was their first kick at the can and it was not unitil the Apex came out where it was a capable trail sled... This sled needed to be evolved through the years starting in 2008, not as a new release in 2011. All they did was made improvements.

Really I know guys who can keep up with anyone on the trails with their RX-1's.

 

[SledFreak]

I want 170 hp.
I want a lighter sled.
I want a new seat.
I want a longer track.
The price is too high

You want all this and you're complaining about the price now??

BS drifter.... If they would have done what everyone wanted which was this AND IT WAS STATED IN THEIR SURVEY WHAT THEY WANTED, since the National manager stated in his video was people wanted A LIGHTER SLED AND MORE POWER. I know when I completed the survey, I said I wanted 170-180hp and bring it in at 500lbs. I know the EPS will be great as I have it on my Grizzly 700. Having a well handling/riding sled is just part of the package. Not offered as an upgrade???? The 2011 sled will be better, I have no doudbt it is, but they did not deliver what everyone wanted. If they would have, people would not be bitching about the price so much. They would find the money some how..... You can sell it the way you want, but people are tired of Yamahas marketing techniques. People want lighter and more hp. There is no reason why they can not deliver this.... All they did was stretch their engineering.... Who knows when they will actually deliver a sled capable of being the top gun. IMO, it was 2006 and 2007, after that, they became 2nd and third place as far as performance is concerned. I am not stating this sled is bad, but I really believe that Yamaha did not deliver what people have been asking for since the Apex. Really, the RX-1 was their first kick at the can and it was not unitil the Apex came out where it was a capable trail sled... This sled needed to be evolved through the years starting in 2008, not as a new release in 2011. All they did was made improvements.

Really I know guys who can keep up with anyone on the trails with their RX-1's.

Now that is a true testimoney of being brand loyal, since the RX-1 was a heavy/ill-handling/stiff riding tank....


Look..... I liked my Apex and my current Nytro... But let's faced it, they both had/have a bunch of small issues..... Let alone the ride and handling was not the best. The calibration on both sleds are at best sub par....

 

[arteeex]

Thank you, Yamaha for being one of four major manufacturers in the world still building sleds to enjoy during the cold winter months. You've saved me a lot of time, money and effort that would have gone towards designing and building my own sled and I appreciate that. Please keep up the good work. And, so you know, I hardly every bitch about things I voluntarily purchase with my own money because that would just make me look stupid for not having exercised better judgment.

 

[drifter]

You keep bringing it up. Look up the stats for the Arctic Cat Z1, $13695 for a not just heavy, but front heavy problem laden sled.

You want to talk Ski-Doo? Go to Dootalk and look at the reliability issues with their revolutionary etec 2 strokes. Plus every 800 Ski-Doo built had been a grenade.

For the current state of the economy and the industry, I think Yamaha delivered.

 

[Sled Dog]

I want 170 hp.
I want a lighter sled.
I want a new seat.
I want a longer track.
The price is too high

You want all this and you're complaining about the price now??

BS drifter.... If they would have done what everyone wanted which was this AND IT WAS STATED IN THEIR SURVEY WHAT THEY WANTED, since the National manager stated in his video was people wanted A LIGHTER SLED AND MORE POWER. I know when I completed the survey, I said I wanted 170-180hp and bring it in at 500lbs. I know the EPS will be great as I have it on my Grizzly 700. Having a well handling/riding sled is just part of the package. Not offered as an upgrade???? The 2011 sled will be better, I have no doudbt it is, but they did not deliver what everyone wanted. If they would have, people would not be bitching about the price so much. They would find the money some how..... You can sell it the way you want, but people are tired of Yamahas marketing techniques. People want lighter and more hp. There is no reason why they can not deliver this.... All they did was stretch their engineering.... Who knows when they will actually deliver a sled capable of being the top gun. IMO, it was 2006 and 2007, after that, they became 2nd and third place as far as performance is concerned. I am not stating this sled is bad, but I really believe that Yamaha did not deliver what people have been asking for since the Apex. Really, the RX-1 was their first kick at the can and it was not unitil the Apex came out where it was a capable trail sled... This sled needed to be evolved through the years starting in 2008, not as a new release in 2011. All they did was made improvements.

Really I know guys who can keep up with anyone on the trails with their RX-1's.

Now that is a true testimoney of being brand loyal, since the RX-1 was a heavy/ill-handling/stiff riding tank....


Look..... I liked my Apex and my current Nytro... But let's faced it, they both had/have a bunch of small issues..... Let alone the ride and handling was not the best. The calibration on both sleds are at best sub par....

More of a testament to the know how of setting up a sled properly and riding skill.

 

[kinger]

LOL good one arteeex!

 

[SledFreak]

You keep bringing it up. Look up the stats for the Arctic Cat Z1, $13695 for a not just heavy, but front heavy problem laden sled.

You want to talk Ski-Doo? Go to Dootalk and look at the reliability issues with their revolutionary etec 2 strokes. Plus every 800 Ski-Doo built had been a grenade.

For the current state of the economy and the industry, I think Yamaha delivered.

You keep bringing up the economy? This sled was built and tested by Yamaha Canada and probably by the U.S. over 3 years ago, when the economy was good.

At least for 13,695 it has a rated 183hp.... You want to talk about reliability,I could say the same here for the Yamaha 3 cylinder that was produced starting in 2005. FYI, the 800R has been a very good motor. It was the 2007 800 and before that were grenades.... I know I owned one and blew up 2 engines... I am not brand loyal to any brand.... Why put your eggs in basket and you are really missing out in life by being brand loyal....


IYO, Yamaha delivered. IMO and the 47 percent from the pole, think the same.... They did not deliver what the consumers wanted....

 

[SledFreak]

Thank you, Yamaha for being one of four major manufacturers in the world still building sleds to enjoy during the cold winter months. You've saved me a lot of time, money and effort that would have gone towards designing and building my own sled and I appreciate that. Please keep up the good work. And, so you know, I hardly every bitch about things I voluntarily purchase with my own money because that would just make me look stupid for not having exercised better judgment.

how true.....

 

[theflamanguy]

Quote "People want lighter and more hp. There is no reason why they can not deliver this...."

Everyone can agree the 2 smokes own the lightweight market

Yamaha can deliver it, yea...but at what cost? They can lighten them up already and have....but people are STILL having problems with subframes and if they lighten anything else then what? more issues?
Everyone can also agree there are materials out there to lighten and strengthen certain components, but those materials carry a hefty price tag as well.
So, with a few refinements were at $15,000us/$17,500cdn can you imagine what a few more would cost???
Also (I haven't checked the programs on the new stuff) don't let a retail price bother you....This could just mean more margin for the dealer to play with....Lord knows they need it! In other words, programs with potentially larger discounts! That would be nice, right? It could also mean that they are getting us used to a price point for future/bigger releases. What I mean is in 2 to 3 years $15,000us/17,500cdn will prolly be in line or at least not as big a price differential

 

[whitedust1]

There are areas in the UPMI & northern WI where $15K is 50% of a riders gross income. Apex is a extreme vertical market dem at $15K. Talked to all my buds & nobody even considering spending $15K on any sled. The 2011 Apex may be the greatest sled in the world but so what if no one or very few can afford it. Value is a good sled at a modest price not an over engineered product for an unaffordable price. I have to wonder where Yamaha Marketing Manager was when the Apex was priced because $15K price will NOT FLY with current customer base. When you get this much price kick back regarding Apex release sales will be few & far between. If it takes $15K per sled to be profitable you released the wrong product from the get go & someone will be looking for a job soon. Lower the price if you can before it is too late or your customers are going elsewhere.

 

[pwa]

The suspension is smoother, and the motor a little more torquey but nothing a clutch kit can't get to.



So a clutch kit in this motor will once again set it back out front. Apples to apples

Apples to apples, and the price for a new machine against a clutch kit?

 

[pwa]

You keep bringing it up. Look up the stats for the Arctic Cat Z1, $13695 for a not just heavy, but front heavy problem laden sled.

You want to talk Ski-Doo? Go to Dootalk and look at the reliability issues with their revolutionary etec 2 strokes. Plus every 800 Ski-Doo built had been a grenade.

For the current state of the economy and the industry, I think Yamaha delivered.

I say, I hate the yellow colour but what Doo are, is what Yamaha lacks... Pro Activeness. Ski-Doo putting out machines, new tech, new, new, new. Yamaha is conservative and this has nothing to do with economics of today. I know that Z1 has lots of issues but still Cat has a goal with that machine and it will get better.

If Yamaha keep this up it will be nothing but a Toyota, really reliable and nice but no fun.

Ask yourself if this machine is so much cooler than a 2006 APEX that it motivates the price? I can see that for people with bad shoulders benefits greatly by Power steering. People who trailing a lot will benefit from this. But the Nytro people are left behind. Nothing new and nothing fun. In the big pic I strongly believe that Yamahas defensiveness is turning Doo into a bigger market leader (if that is possible).

Obama has very little with the fact that Cat, Poo and Doo is more Pro Active in their design and their renewal of snowmobiling.

Still I want a 750 or 800 4-stroke from Yamaha with a well balanced chassi and at least 130 HP. When you do this machine Yamaha... Put the engine deep down in the chassis, please.