Sure build them lighter and watch them buckle, and blow up etc... Sure the Yamahas are heavier then some of the compition but at least they hold up to the real world...My Venture is one the heavest ones there but I can keep up with my buddies 700 Crossfire and the MXZ 800 Blizzard, sure they pull away from me on the lakes, but in the trails, slush, and deep snow I can keep up just fine...The trick is don't get stuck , but the way I look at it, I will tow the Cat and the Doo home after a beak down , I will even give them gas when they run out and I still have half of a tank , so if I get stuck at least they can do is help get me out ..........
Bodacious
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
Lighter can certainly mean a better HP to Weight ratio. Skidoo looks as though they went the extra mile for 08'. Only time will tell if quality will be an issue. I'm not pro-any brand. But look at the numbers comparing an 07 Apex Mnt 162" at 597 lbs compared to the 08' Summit 154" at 439 lbs..........thats 158 lbs difference. That is huge! Does Yami have a more reliable motor?...... most likely yes..... for those of us that trade off every year or two ....that isn't nearly as important? Every time any of the OEM's make a major leap forward, the benifit trickles down to every manufactor and to the comsumers as well. . That is what makes this sport so great. So my point is this.... don't be closed minded or offended because of some other brand has an ad campain that may cast a shadow on your favorite brand of toy...only good things will come from it!
I feel Yamaha did an incredible job of making weight mostly a non-issue over the past 2 years, especially in their advertising campaigns, and also in getting reasonably close in their true sled weights with the known 4-stroke weight handicap.
But that was the past 2 years...
For 2008, I think Ski-Doo will be doing an incredible job of bringing the weight issue front and center and in-your-face nasty, by now making the spread in weight a whopping 120 to 160 lb range for sleds in the 150 hp class (unless of course Yamaha put the Apex line on a serious diet for 08, which I doubt). Can you imagine what Yamaha will have to do in their engineering department for the next Apex line, hopefully in 2009, in order to re-close this new gap?!?!? They certainly can't rely on their "weight of a tank of gasoline" advertising campaign anymore, unless they're planning to compare 20 to 25 gallon plus fuel tanks on sleds!!!
I hope everyone realizes this is a phenomonal time in the history of the snowmobile, with incredibly fast technological advancements compared to history. So let only the strong survive....and let's hope ALL the manufacturers are strong. Strong enough to make our 2007 sleds look incredibly obsolete in a few very short years. Awesome.
That's my way of saying: Ditto what Bodacious said!
But that was the past 2 years...
For 2008, I think Ski-Doo will be doing an incredible job of bringing the weight issue front and center and in-your-face nasty, by now making the spread in weight a whopping 120 to 160 lb range for sleds in the 150 hp class (unless of course Yamaha put the Apex line on a serious diet for 08, which I doubt). Can you imagine what Yamaha will have to do in their engineering department for the next Apex line, hopefully in 2009, in order to re-close this new gap?!?!? They certainly can't rely on their "weight of a tank of gasoline" advertising campaign anymore, unless they're planning to compare 20 to 25 gallon plus fuel tanks on sleds!!!
I hope everyone realizes this is a phenomonal time in the history of the snowmobile, with incredibly fast technological advancements compared to history. So let only the strong survive....and let's hope ALL the manufacturers are strong. Strong enough to make our 2007 sleds look incredibly obsolete in a few very short years. Awesome.
That's my way of saying: Ditto what Bodacious said!
Bodacious said:Lighter can certainly mean a better HP to Weight ratio. Skidoo looks as though they went the extra mile for 08'. Only time will tell if quality will be an issue. I'm not pro-any brand. But look at the numbers comparing an 07 Apex Mnt 162" at 597 lbs compared to the 08' Summit 154" at 439 lbs..........thats 158 lbs difference. That is huge! Does Yami have a more reliable motor?...... most likely yes..... for those of us that trade off every year or two ....that isn't nearly as important? Every time any of the OEM's make a major leap forward, the benifit trickles down to every manufactor and to the comsumers as well. . That is what makes this sport so great. So my point is this.... don't be closed minded or offended because of some other brand has an ad campain that may cast a shadow on your favorite brand of toy...only good things will come from it!
First all has anyone put an 08 summit on a scale yet or are you getting the numbers from bombardier. What is the real diff in weight from and 07 summit to an 08 summit? Get it ready to go out on a 400 mile trip and weigh it then you will see the true numbers.


- Joined
- Apr 13, 2003
- Messages
- 3,158
- Reaction score
- 383
- Points
- 1,663
- Location
- Sauk Prairie, WI
- Website
- www.ty4stroke.com
2 trains of though from 2 very different companies. I believe when the dust settles Yamaha and Ski-Doo will own this industry.
Lets look at this from all 4 Majors
Polaris:
Its clean Polaris is now an ATV first company. This is evident in the sub par performing sleds they have released over the past few seasons. While the Dragon is a fantastic snowmobile, it just cant compete on the lakes with the Doos, Cats and Yammies. If you think for a minute that speed doesnt sell, your crazy. It is no fun being the "slow guy" of your group. I would not be surprised to see Polaris bow out over the next few years. Polaris does do well in the Snow-X arena and I feel its soley why polaris is still around.
Arctic Cat:
Had HUGE success with the Firecat Chassis. In 03, the F7 officialy dethroned the Mighty SRX as king of the 700 class. And for that matter, even the 800 class. Reliablity never seemed to be a concern for most "Cat Guys". As newer tech came from Yamaha, they still have had quite a loyal following. I really believe Cat has the most loyal riders. On to 07. F1000s problems right out of the gate, 4 stroke Jags that cant run with Yamahs 120 class, and a crowd beginning to wonder why I takes Y-Pipes, bullesyes and clutching on a F1000 to run with a Apex or Ski-Doo 800 and Mach Z. Cat has lost alot of riders over the past few seasons to both Doo and Yamaha. Cat has done a great job competing in Snowcross and straightline for quite awhile now, and have always been a force to be reconed with for all out speed. Efficient chassis and big HP is the attraction to Cat.
Ski-Doo
What can you say. No matter how you look at it, they did "REV"olutionize the way a sled is ridden back in 03. Talk about success. No new platform for 4 years and still had a sled that rode great, handled great and always ran hard. They have defientely had some motor issues including bad rings in 800s, ring gear problems, 1000 Mach zs (2005) that couldnt get out of there own way out of the box. Quality and reliability have improved each year for the REV. Now on to 08, talk about a knock out punch for the "two stroke" minded companies. How on earth will Poo and Cat compete with this new chassis. Ski-Doo has just looked them in the eye and delivered a right hook. If there claims are accurate about weights, how will any of the other 3 compete with the same HP at an over 100 lb disadvantage? The answer is quite simple, build a sled that is completely different and attracts a different rider. Enter YAMAHA
Yamaha
4 Stroke, 4 stroke and more 4 stroke. Its been clear since the introduction of the 03 RX-1 that Yamaha was committed to there 4 stroke program. I think its genious that Yamaha knew back then how this industry would look 5 years later. While Yamahas market share increase each of the past 5 seasons, the other companies sit back and develope more of the same. The technology, performance, quality, ergonomics, dependability and curb appeal are unmatched in the industry. Yamaha builds the best quality sled in the business which is really nothing new from Yamaha. They have always marched to the beat of there own drum and never been a follower. Kudos to Big Blue for providing us with the most technologically advanced sleds to date. And to do it in a fasion they are still price competetive. I find it amazing Yamaha can build what they do and sell it for what they do. I said it back in 03, if the future of the sport is ultimately 4 stroke, be relieved you are a Yamaha fan.
Summary:
It looks pretty clear to me that Ski-Doo and Yamaha have posisioned themselves to put a stranglehold on this industry. With the release of Yamahas mid HP level new chassis tomorrow, and there re-committment to Snow Cross, they mean business. And that can not sit will for the competetion. Yamaha has the technology and know how to be #1 in sales again and looks like there are quite serious about getting back the the worlds largest manufacturer. Ski-Doo will take some serious business away from the Poo and Cat unless they act, and act fast.
Just my humble opinion...BBY
Lets look at this from all 4 Majors
Polaris:
Its clean Polaris is now an ATV first company. This is evident in the sub par performing sleds they have released over the past few seasons. While the Dragon is a fantastic snowmobile, it just cant compete on the lakes with the Doos, Cats and Yammies. If you think for a minute that speed doesnt sell, your crazy. It is no fun being the "slow guy" of your group. I would not be surprised to see Polaris bow out over the next few years. Polaris does do well in the Snow-X arena and I feel its soley why polaris is still around.
Arctic Cat:
Had HUGE success with the Firecat Chassis. In 03, the F7 officialy dethroned the Mighty SRX as king of the 700 class. And for that matter, even the 800 class. Reliablity never seemed to be a concern for most "Cat Guys". As newer tech came from Yamaha, they still have had quite a loyal following. I really believe Cat has the most loyal riders. On to 07. F1000s problems right out of the gate, 4 stroke Jags that cant run with Yamahs 120 class, and a crowd beginning to wonder why I takes Y-Pipes, bullesyes and clutching on a F1000 to run with a Apex or Ski-Doo 800 and Mach Z. Cat has lost alot of riders over the past few seasons to both Doo and Yamaha. Cat has done a great job competing in Snowcross and straightline for quite awhile now, and have always been a force to be reconed with for all out speed. Efficient chassis and big HP is the attraction to Cat.
Ski-Doo
What can you say. No matter how you look at it, they did "REV"olutionize the way a sled is ridden back in 03. Talk about success. No new platform for 4 years and still had a sled that rode great, handled great and always ran hard. They have defientely had some motor issues including bad rings in 800s, ring gear problems, 1000 Mach zs (2005) that couldnt get out of there own way out of the box. Quality and reliability have improved each year for the REV. Now on to 08, talk about a knock out punch for the "two stroke" minded companies. How on earth will Poo and Cat compete with this new chassis. Ski-Doo has just looked them in the eye and delivered a right hook. If there claims are accurate about weights, how will any of the other 3 compete with the same HP at an over 100 lb disadvantage? The answer is quite simple, build a sled that is completely different and attracts a different rider. Enter YAMAHA
Yamaha
4 Stroke, 4 stroke and more 4 stroke. Its been clear since the introduction of the 03 RX-1 that Yamaha was committed to there 4 stroke program. I think its genious that Yamaha knew back then how this industry would look 5 years later. While Yamahas market share increase each of the past 5 seasons, the other companies sit back and develope more of the same. The technology, performance, quality, ergonomics, dependability and curb appeal are unmatched in the industry. Yamaha builds the best quality sled in the business which is really nothing new from Yamaha. They have always marched to the beat of there own drum and never been a follower. Kudos to Big Blue for providing us with the most technologically advanced sleds to date. And to do it in a fasion they are still price competetive. I find it amazing Yamaha can build what they do and sell it for what they do. I said it back in 03, if the future of the sport is ultimately 4 stroke, be relieved you are a Yamaha fan.
Summary:
It looks pretty clear to me that Ski-Doo and Yamaha have posisioned themselves to put a stranglehold on this industry. With the release of Yamahas mid HP level new chassis tomorrow, and there re-committment to Snow Cross, they mean business. And that can not sit will for the competetion. Yamaha has the technology and know how to be #1 in sales again and looks like there are quite serious about getting back the the worlds largest manufacturer. Ski-Doo will take some serious business away from the Poo and Cat unless they act, and act fast.
Just my humble opinion...BBY
Attak-Firecat
Extreme
I ride with guys that have mostly Firecats. We switch up between sleds a lot during a ride just to feel out other rides, and the weight difference is very apparent when riding different sleds back to back.
Having also owned a Firecat I can say that the extra weight of my Attak gives it a very solid and stable feel in all conditions which I love. The lightweight Firecat feels much more twitchy and is affected more by changing conditions, but is a lot easier to throw around and gets stuck much less often in deep powder.
With the same torque/hp, the lighter sled always wins...just a matter of physics. I'd love to see the Apex/Attak shed a few pounds if it can be done without sacrificing the solid ride and feel.
Having also owned a Firecat I can say that the extra weight of my Attak gives it a very solid and stable feel in all conditions which I love. The lightweight Firecat feels much more twitchy and is affected more by changing conditions, but is a lot easier to throw around and gets stuck much less often in deep powder.
With the same torque/hp, the lighter sled always wins...just a matter of physics. I'd love to see the Apex/Attak shed a few pounds if it can be done without sacrificing the solid ride and feel.
Superman
TY 4 Stroke Master
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2005
- Messages
- 1,355
- Reaction score
- 14
- Points
- 1,073
- Location
- Gaylord MI
- Website
- www.lakeffectsnow.com
What ever the numbers are you can tell that Ski-doo re-thought the drive system. And from reading the rest of the propaganda I don't see where any of their claims are too far fetched on the surface. We'll See? Nobody bleeds more blue than Me. But these early specs from Doo are worth talking about.


STAIN
Lifetime Member
- Joined
- Feb 29, 2004
- Messages
- 4,409
- Reaction score
- 3,679
- Points
- 1,713
- Location
- Vermont
- Country
- USA
- Snowmobile
- 2024 Arctic Cat Riot 9000
- LOCATION
- Vermont
I have gone back and forth between light and heavier sleds for years now, buying a lightweight one year only to go to a bigger one next and then back again . I really believe it depends on where you ride. If you ride rough trails and ride them hard, get the lightweight snocross sled. If you ride mostly groomed high speed trails, get the bigger sled.
I owned a firecat, and on high speed trails that thing would wear you out over the course of a day. Being light it reacted to EVERYTHING in the trail, every little bump, ski track and dip. You were always chasing that thing, and yes I tuned on the suspension for two years trying to get right. Don't get me wrong that thing was a blast in the woods, unbeatable, and great over rough trail, but I don't ride hard over rough trail any more [ getting older you know ] and my RX gets on those big trails and just stays planted, tracks strait and is easy to drive. Yes it shows it's weight when the going gets rough but I don't care anymore, I don't many rough trails to honest. Two of my riding buddies also ditched their lightweight rockets for the stability of something a little bigger--or stable. This was after riding yammis on longer, faster trails after getting off thier "lightweight"
sled.
It comes down to this, what would rather ride 200 miles down the interstate in, a turbo charged Honda Accord or an Impala SS?
I owned a firecat, and on high speed trails that thing would wear you out over the course of a day. Being light it reacted to EVERYTHING in the trail, every little bump, ski track and dip. You were always chasing that thing, and yes I tuned on the suspension for two years trying to get right. Don't get me wrong that thing was a blast in the woods, unbeatable, and great over rough trail, but I don't ride hard over rough trail any more [ getting older you know ] and my RX gets on those big trails and just stays planted, tracks strait and is easy to drive. Yes it shows it's weight when the going gets rough but I don't care anymore, I don't many rough trails to honest. Two of my riding buddies also ditched their lightweight rockets for the stability of something a little bigger--or stable. This was after riding yammis on longer, faster trails after getting off thier "lightweight"
sled.
It comes down to this, what would rather ride 200 miles down the interstate in, a turbo charged Honda Accord or an Impala SS?
BlueByYou2000 said:2 trains of though from 2 very different companies. I believe when the dust settles Yamaha and Ski-Doo will own this industry.
Lets look at this from all 4 Majors
Polaris:
Its clean Polaris is now an ATV first company. This is evident in the sub par performing sleds they have released over the past few seasons. While the Dragon is a fantastic snowmobile, it just cant compete on the lakes with the Doos, Cats and Yammies. If you think for a minute that speed doesnt sell, your crazy. It is no fun being the "slow guy" of your group. I would not be surprised to see Polaris bow out over the next few years. Polaris does do well in the Snow-X arena and I feel its soley why polaris is still around.
Arctic Cat:
Had HUGE success with the Firecat Chassis. In 03, the F7 officialy dethroned the Mighty SRX as king of the 700 class. And for that matter, even the 800 class. Reliablity never seemed to be a concern for most "Cat Guys". As newer tech came from Yamaha, they still have had quite a loyal following. I really believe Cat has the most loyal riders. On to 07. F1000s problems right out of the gate, 4 stroke Jags that cant run with Yamahs 120 class, and a crowd beginning to wonder why I takes Y-Pipes, bullesyes and clutching on a F1000 to run with a Apex or Ski-Doo 800 and Mach Z. Cat has lost alot of riders over the past few seasons to both Doo and Yamaha. Cat has done a great job competing in Snowcross and straightline for quite awhile now, and have always been a force to be reconed with for all out speed. Efficient chassis and big HP is the attraction to Cat.
Ski-Doo
What can you say. No matter how you look at it, they did "REV"olutionize the way a sled is ridden back in 03. Talk about success. No new platform for 4 years and still had a sled that rode great, handled great and always ran hard. They have defientely had some motor issues including bad rings in 800s, ring gear problems, 1000 Mach zs (2005) that couldnt get out of there own way out of the box. Quality and reliability have improved each year for the REV. Now on to 08, talk about a knock out punch for the "two stroke" minded companies. How on earth will Poo and Cat compete with this new chassis. Ski-Doo has just looked them in the eye and delivered a right hook. If there claims are accurate about weights, how will any of the other 3 compete with the same HP at an over 100 lb disadvantage? The answer is quite simple, build a sled that is completely different and attracts a different rider. Enter YAMAHA
Yamaha
4 Stroke, 4 stroke and more 4 stroke. Its been clear since the introduction of the 03 RX-1 that Yamaha was committed to there 4 stroke program. I think its genious that Yamaha knew back then how this industry would look 5 years later. While Yamahas market share increase each of the past 5 seasons, the other companies sit back and develope more of the same. The technology, performance, quality, ergonomics, dependability and curb appeal are unmatched in the industry. Yamaha builds the best quality sled in the business which is really nothing new from Yamaha. They have always marched to the beat of there own drum and never been a follower. Kudos to Big Blue for providing us with the most technologically advanced sleds to date. And to do it in a fasion they are still price competetive. I find it amazing Yamaha can build what they do and sell it for what they do. I said it back in 03, if the future of the sport is ultimately 4 stroke, be relieved you are a Yamaha fan.
Summary:
It looks pretty clear to me that Ski-Doo and Yamaha have posisioned themselves to put a stranglehold on this industry. With the release of Yamahas mid HP level new chassis tomorrow, and there re-committment to Snow Cross, they mean business. And that can not sit will for the competetion. Yamaha has the technology and know how to be #1 in sales again and looks like there are quite serious about getting back the the worlds largest manufacturer. Ski-Doo will take some serious business away from the Poo and Cat unless they act, and act fast.
Just my humble opinion...BBY
Matt your right on

When you goo off trail riding or mtn riding is where I like the light sleds the lighter the better.That's whay you see most tmn sled have many light weight parts on them.Look on the rx/rs mtn forum or apex mtn forum there is all kinds of guys asking how to make there sled lighter.There is guys spending thousands on lightweight parts.
mbw919
Pro
I bought an '06 Vector GT this year because I wanted a new snowmobile with electric start, reverse, and preferably a four stroke engine. Dry weight is 545 pounds. I went to the Ski-Doo web site and compared the GSX 600 weight. The GSX looks to be the closest model they have to the Vector GT. Both are nicely equipped luxury trail machines. So what does this deluxe version of the light weight REV weigh? 514 pounds. Only a 31 pound difference, and it's a two stroke. It seems adding electric start to any machine adds weight.
:ORC
:ORC
welterracer
TY 4 Stroke God
MATT
I agree 100%.... That yamahas are great!... and the revs LOOK great..
Even if you add 20lbs to the new rev (assuming they fudge there numbers) the sled would still be 100lbs lighter than a apex.. WOW..
This is going to really push the other manufactures to lighten there sleds up even more..(which is good for the sport)
I agree 100%.... That yamahas are great!... and the revs LOOK great..
Even if you add 20lbs to the new rev (assuming they fudge there numbers) the sled would still be 100lbs lighter than a apex.. WOW..
This is going to really push the other manufactures to lighten there sleds up even more..(which is good for the sport)
BA APEX
Expert
kinger said:You say that but there is what, 35lbs difference, same deltabox chassis. I don't think anyones #*$&@ can tell 35lbs apart I'm still betting its in the set up.
Thus my RX will get a Apex front suspension, GYTR clickers, apex seat, and possibly a monoshock in the rear. Can you say $5000 apex with carbs![]()
rx1 & apex don't even compare. sell the rx & buy a used apex. don't put a bunch of money trying make it an apex.
welterracer
TY 4 Stroke God
i agree with BA APEX... i stuck alot of money into my Rx-warrior.... and it still is no comparison to my apex ..
Tork
TY 4 Stroke God
Matt, best written article evarrrr!!!!!




BURMAD69
Expert
If light weight means their built like the firecats(tin foil) I guess I dont want any part of them, IMO light weight means 1. no traction 2. no r
idigity 3. no longevety 4. just not good
==============
--------------------------
................. 
idigity 3. no longevety 4. just not good




Similar threads
- Replies
- 71
- Views
- 16K
- Replies
- 4
- Views
- 1K
- Replies
- 16
- Views
- 6K
- Replies
- 8
- Views
- 1K
-
This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.