gormleyflyer2002
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
Well....I have been chasing my tail for 1600 km trying to get this sled to handle the way I would like. I want it to rail corners and take all big and small trail junk without noticing.
From my experience on setting up new sleds, you try and get a sled balanced first to get the handling down before worrying about the ride quality and damping for bump performance. You do this via "leg" or "sag" height adjustments via spring weight and preload and more really from riding and how it handles corner and acceleration. How much bite or slide you prefer. Well, unless you ride only fields and smooth trails I feel its very hard to get handling and balance on my RTX. For the most part I would compare the "stock" set up to a three wheeled shopping cart or perhaps a tractor with a flat tire......others may not agree or IMO know better. (sorry, I'm glad you like your ride)
To get the floats to be anything other than very harsh I had to run low psi making the sled ride real low up front........this resulted in, darting when slowing down, hard steering, bucking.......and the extreme ski lift and launch (into the weeds) due to weight trasfer when get on the gas.
People talk about how their RTX headlight is junk.....its either on the skis or in the trees, this is actually and indicator showing you how much the weight is shifting in both directions for and aft. Think about this on your past sleds, ever ride a sled that does this as severe...?
The FIX #1..Sold Floats, bought new Ohlins shocks and figured I would finally realize the potential of this sled.......LOL....NOT.
I was screwed by Ohlins.......stupid me, thinking they might have actually tested a new Nytro to get their set-up and calibration. Dealer made a mistake, told me stock Nytro came with 17N/mm springs, Ohlins sent theirs with 19N/mm springs......, after trying everything, I couldn't get the sled to handle much better than with the floats. I then find out that the standard Nytro comes with 24.5N/mm springs.......dam dealer.
Anyway.....to the good stuff.
Frank @ "shocktec" lent me some RX1 shocks to try with 26N/mm springs, he revalved the rear shocks and we installed Ulmer coupling blocks......yah freaking hoo. I now have great handling sled, yes the RX1 shocks are a little to much, both spring and damping are a touch heavy for the light Nytro but proof that I'm on the right track. I'll probably buy 24-25N/mm springs for the Ohlins. .....Done. Those wondering about trading for standard front shocks will love them I would guess.
The sled is finally rocking......both front and rear are working awesome,
I can rail corners, skis are only just light when flipper is full on. A little looser with less traction for sure. Ulmer blocks have no negative effect on skid when coupling sooner for me, not great if your lake racers from standing start. Out of the box Nytro transfers weight like a snocrosser. (we might have asked or this)
With the front end now riding higher, I can run stock rear limiter strap setting, I get some rear travel back with less spring preload also. Front strap either 1 or 2 holes up.....depends how fat you are...LOL, <200 one hole.
center spring with min preload is critical, rear torsions on H.
I'm finally at the point of fine tunning........and who knew, the dam headlight is actually pretty good.
for those that already knew all these little RTX secrets.......biite me, or speak up FGS.
or, maybe I'm just picky...!.......sorry for the long post guys, just figured there might be other RTX guys struggling to find the light.
cheers, Brian
From my experience on setting up new sleds, you try and get a sled balanced first to get the handling down before worrying about the ride quality and damping for bump performance. You do this via "leg" or "sag" height adjustments via spring weight and preload and more really from riding and how it handles corner and acceleration. How much bite or slide you prefer. Well, unless you ride only fields and smooth trails I feel its very hard to get handling and balance on my RTX. For the most part I would compare the "stock" set up to a three wheeled shopping cart or perhaps a tractor with a flat tire......others may not agree or IMO know better. (sorry, I'm glad you like your ride)
To get the floats to be anything other than very harsh I had to run low psi making the sled ride real low up front........this resulted in, darting when slowing down, hard steering, bucking.......and the extreme ski lift and launch (into the weeds) due to weight trasfer when get on the gas.
People talk about how their RTX headlight is junk.....its either on the skis or in the trees, this is actually and indicator showing you how much the weight is shifting in both directions for and aft. Think about this on your past sleds, ever ride a sled that does this as severe...?
The FIX #1..Sold Floats, bought new Ohlins shocks and figured I would finally realize the potential of this sled.......LOL....NOT.
I was screwed by Ohlins.......stupid me, thinking they might have actually tested a new Nytro to get their set-up and calibration. Dealer made a mistake, told me stock Nytro came with 17N/mm springs, Ohlins sent theirs with 19N/mm springs......, after trying everything, I couldn't get the sled to handle much better than with the floats. I then find out that the standard Nytro comes with 24.5N/mm springs.......dam dealer.
Anyway.....to the good stuff.
Frank @ "shocktec" lent me some RX1 shocks to try with 26N/mm springs, he revalved the rear shocks and we installed Ulmer coupling blocks......yah freaking hoo. I now have great handling sled, yes the RX1 shocks are a little to much, both spring and damping are a touch heavy for the light Nytro but proof that I'm on the right track. I'll probably buy 24-25N/mm springs for the Ohlins. .....Done. Those wondering about trading for standard front shocks will love them I would guess.
The sled is finally rocking......both front and rear are working awesome,
I can rail corners, skis are only just light when flipper is full on. A little looser with less traction for sure. Ulmer blocks have no negative effect on skid when coupling sooner for me, not great if your lake racers from standing start. Out of the box Nytro transfers weight like a snocrosser. (we might have asked or this)
With the front end now riding higher, I can run stock rear limiter strap setting, I get some rear travel back with less spring preload also. Front strap either 1 or 2 holes up.....depends how fat you are...LOL, <200 one hole.
center spring with min preload is critical, rear torsions on H.
I'm finally at the point of fine tunning........and who knew, the dam headlight is actually pretty good.
for those that already knew all these little RTX secrets.......biite me, or speak up FGS.
or, maybe I'm just picky...!.......sorry for the long post guys, just figured there might be other RTX guys struggling to find the light.
cheers, Brian
mryamaha
Extreme
Excellent post, thanks
jds1000
Expert
I think that for anything other than snox racing the Fox Floats suck big time. I have the STD Nytro for My Wife and all I did to make her sled handle and ride awesome was to set everything very light for her weight, pull up the front limiter one hole and install Pilot skis with 6 inch shaper bars. She loves the way the sled handles and steers and she spent the last 6 thousand miles on a Rev that she loved. There is no reason why it should take such a huge effort to make these Nytros handle and ride and in My opinion the two biggest obstacles are the Fox Floats and the stock skis.
skyboz
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
Good post, gormleyflyer2002!!! With the headlight issue, I doubt all headlights are in the same exact spot when we take delivery of these things. I adjusted mine so that I use the high beam only. I turned it 1 1/2 turns ccw and I'll probably go another 1/2 turn to get it dialed, but this is the best light I've ever had on a sled. Another thing you had mentioned, which I think is the one of the best things you could have done, is putting on different coupling blocks! You nailed it when you said that it makes the skis light only when your getting into the throttle. It will wheelie if you want it to, but for turning, the skis are always in contact with the snow. It feels much more controllable, doesn't it?? Good to hear your getting it set-up. 
My suggestion to anyone would be to get AC or Poo style coupling blocks, set the Floats around 45-50#(no lower than 45#), and pull the front limiter strap up at least one hole!!! Then start dialing in the rear suspension to your liking!!!!
My suggestion to anyone would be to get AC or Poo style coupling blocks, set the Floats around 45-50#(no lower than 45#), and pull the front limiter strap up at least one hole!!! Then start dialing in the rear suspension to your liking!!!!
snownutz
Expert
I still think the floats are great for real mogul banging trails. I still will take the stiffer ride on the other conditions just knowing that I can rock through the big moguls. Just my thought.
Reaper
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
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gormleyfyler, are you saying the RX-1 Ohlins fit on the Nytro and work well ??
gormleyflyer2002
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
yes, although damping and spring are a but heavy. But way better handling than floats.
not sure about different years,,,,.....shocks are 17.5" or 445mm eye to eye.
you want a 24 N/mm spring or 140-150 lb range. Damping might be a bit hard due to heavier sled but handling is night and day better.
1/4 thicker coupling block made a huge difference also.
not sure about different years,,,,.....shocks are 17.5" or 445mm eye to eye.
you want a 24 N/mm spring or 140-150 lb range. Damping might be a bit hard due to heavier sled but handling is night and day better.
1/4 thicker coupling block made a huge difference also.
nytro boy
Extreme
gormleyflyer2002 said:
did revalving the rear shocks make that much of a difference??? and if so where can you find shocktec?
thx
gormleyflyer2002
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
08NitroRTX
VIP Member
gormley,
Nice post (even if the last part might be directed at me.. Sorry!)
Front suspension;
As you know we are running a different spring combo than you are, BUT I too feel the Ohlins are far superiour to the Fox Floats.. once dialed in. It is NOT like you can buy them off the shelf and they magicly are set up perfect. I think we have both found this to be true! (there actually was a very limited supply of Ohlin shocks for this sled!) We tried no less than 8 different pairs of springs with different rates and lengths before we found a combo we liked and ended with.
As for the rear skid;
After last week jumping on the stock RTX 'race' sleds for the first time was a surprizing reminder how much better my practice sled (FX NytroRTX) was set up than the new race sled for my style of riding! While most of this can be dialed in, the race sled was still tuned to the exact point I had my practice sled before I decided it was time to tune the shocks with a custom rebuild. NO everyone doesn't need a shock rebuild! But stock valving can only do so much with the rebound and compression dampening we have. Keep in mind I have a different mindset than some when it comes to suspension tuning. There are many that know MUCH more than I about suspensions BUT I know what feels the best to me and my riding style. I know this doesn't work for all that is why I am most hesitant to offer exact set ups to others. And that alone may have been the biggest factor for me ditching the Fox Floats early on. The Fox Floats are not user friendly for my aggressive style riding. Nor could I get them to be what I expect out of a quality tunable shock. Like I have stated before I have not had a set of Fox Floats apart and maybe IF I understood them better I could have made changes to get them to respond better in the area they were lacking IMHO!
On a side note:
I went over to a buddy that does shocks for many of the local racers and I have NEVER seen so much Ohlin carnage! He was quick to show me a brand new set of Ohlins from an 08 Arctic Cat distroying them in less than 200 miles (at each shock positions) Now granted that sled could absolutly get it through very rough trail (like a sled SHOULDN'T be able too) but the shock damage was a steep price. 3 of 4 shock completely distroyed for different reasons! One was repairable. Bottom line is, I think we are expecting our sleds (any brand) to be invenceible! And they aren't! Each brand has sleds that can take bumps harder, faster, than thier own sled of say even 3 years ago. I know my FX nytro can go through the bumps better than my MXZx 600 mod sled but I have to ask myself... for how long? How long will it allow me to bash through the bumps. What changes have I made that allows me to go faster or more comfortable at faster pace and what affect do those chages have on the rest of the sled. Some have seen the changes we have made and some feel we may have gone somewhat over board.. I guess time will tell!
Again Brian nice write up, not meaning to hijack your thread.... I know you have spent many $ and lots of time getting your sled to handle like you like and honestly all it'll take is one ride on a 100% RTX and you know you did the right thing and all the time and headaches were worth it.
A stock FX NytroRTX can ride nice but can be improved on also!
Jeff
Nice post (even if the last part might be directed at me.. Sorry!)
Front suspension;
As you know we are running a different spring combo than you are, BUT I too feel the Ohlins are far superiour to the Fox Floats.. once dialed in. It is NOT like you can buy them off the shelf and they magicly are set up perfect. I think we have both found this to be true! (there actually was a very limited supply of Ohlin shocks for this sled!) We tried no less than 8 different pairs of springs with different rates and lengths before we found a combo we liked and ended with.
As for the rear skid;
After last week jumping on the stock RTX 'race' sleds for the first time was a surprizing reminder how much better my practice sled (FX NytroRTX) was set up than the new race sled for my style of riding! While most of this can be dialed in, the race sled was still tuned to the exact point I had my practice sled before I decided it was time to tune the shocks with a custom rebuild. NO everyone doesn't need a shock rebuild! But stock valving can only do so much with the rebound and compression dampening we have. Keep in mind I have a different mindset than some when it comes to suspension tuning. There are many that know MUCH more than I about suspensions BUT I know what feels the best to me and my riding style. I know this doesn't work for all that is why I am most hesitant to offer exact set ups to others. And that alone may have been the biggest factor for me ditching the Fox Floats early on. The Fox Floats are not user friendly for my aggressive style riding. Nor could I get them to be what I expect out of a quality tunable shock. Like I have stated before I have not had a set of Fox Floats apart and maybe IF I understood them better I could have made changes to get them to respond better in the area they were lacking IMHO!
On a side note:
I went over to a buddy that does shocks for many of the local racers and I have NEVER seen so much Ohlin carnage! He was quick to show me a brand new set of Ohlins from an 08 Arctic Cat distroying them in less than 200 miles (at each shock positions) Now granted that sled could absolutly get it through very rough trail (like a sled SHOULDN'T be able too) but the shock damage was a steep price. 3 of 4 shock completely distroyed for different reasons! One was repairable. Bottom line is, I think we are expecting our sleds (any brand) to be invenceible! And they aren't! Each brand has sleds that can take bumps harder, faster, than thier own sled of say even 3 years ago. I know my FX nytro can go through the bumps better than my MXZx 600 mod sled but I have to ask myself... for how long? How long will it allow me to bash through the bumps. What changes have I made that allows me to go faster or more comfortable at faster pace and what affect do those chages have on the rest of the sled. Some have seen the changes we have made and some feel we may have gone somewhat over board.. I guess time will tell!
Again Brian nice write up, not meaning to hijack your thread.... I know you have spent many $ and lots of time getting your sled to handle like you like and honestly all it'll take is one ride on a 100% RTX and you know you did the right thing and all the time and headaches were worth it.
A stock FX NytroRTX can ride nice but can be improved on also!
Jeff
