My VK Pro ll Experience

[YukonMP]

I'll probably do this in a few posts but this is a start. Want to get this out to help out anyone considering a Spring Order. I picked up my 2020 VK Pro two months ago and have just over 2500 kms on it now. I really like the sled and am happy with my decision to get one. Because my old ride was an MP and because I hunt with skidoos there will be some comparisons but I'll start with my likes/dislikes. The likes first.

I like the heated underseat storage. We had three days of -40C on the last bison hunt and I had warm water and snacks at the end off the day. I like the exhaust turnouts(accessory/option). With them tunnel icing is minimal, again even on consecutive 90kms days off trail at -40C. The windshield/cowl configuration is awesome, more comprehensive than the Scandics or Expeditions. The seat is very comfortable and the envy off the skidoo boys. Of course the thing is a brute with 50% more HP than the 900Ace. But to tell the truth it isn't often used. One of the Scandics had to give up his skimmer and I came out pulling three but one was mostly empty gas cans. I like the seating position, front and back. Handwarmers are great and lights marginal. Power steering is awesome. It is so well done you don't even notice it except the steering is easy and quiet. I like the track and the 1.5 inch lug height. Mileage is better than I expected, 19l/100km. Looked like the 900s were using a little less.

Now for the dislikes. Would not start below -30C, just as the dealer told me. I had the coolant heater installed but haven't been able to judge its effectiveness because when it was cold at home I kept my new, not yet broken in baby in the shop. Then in the bush there was no power. In contrast the 900Aces always went, even the ones on 5 year old batteries. I really prefer the much maligned iTC throttle in this application. We do a lot of slow speed riding, basically at a walk sometimes. The VK throttle/power/gearing make it a bit to handle at slow speeds. The transmission is very noisy in low and shifting is difficult. Often I have to screw around to get it to shift and sometimes it is just quicker to shut it off. No such issues for the skidoos. I don't like the sight glass on the chaincase. The little plug you have to remove is stiff as heck in the cold and hard to remove or replace. Others have mentioned the frosting of the windshield, I had some but not bad.

More likes. The tub/hood is great. I wanted to get away from the plastic origami mess sleds have now a days and really enjoy the ease, space, and visibility it has. Skidoo boys have patience I don't have trying to remove and replace their panels. Just remembered, the clutches run COOL, I mean real cool, innner barely warm from engine.Even after a 64 km run pulling 3 skimmers they were cool. Cool, but obnoxiously noisy. I really like the handling of the sled in all conditions with the exception of the jerkiness when trying to creep/crawl. When the SWT were around they broke trail and I couldn't touch them. I did put one day in breaking trail with an expedition and we ended up with me in front, primarily because of side slope and I have a left hand throttle which the iTC doesn't accommodate. Really like having a Japan built Yamaha. The 900Ace guys start getting nervous and sell at 8000km. My MP has 15k km and that sled is not halfway done.

I will add to this as things occur to me or new stuff comes up. I'll do my best to answer your questions and welcome your suggestions.

 

[Bill Biggs]

Hi YukonMP,

Thanks very much for posting that info. It's super helpful. I'm starting to research another machine, and I'll be looking for a 4 stroke, probably hoping to buy some time next fall. I have it narrowed down to a VK PRO like you have, or an Expedition Wide Track with the 900 ace. I have a 2017 VK540 now, and it's treated us very well, so despite the low speed maneuverability and cold weather starting disadvantages, I am still leaning towards another Yamaha. After running our VK 540 for just over 3 years I'm not sure I can go back to a machine without the full hood that opens.

One of the reasons I want a 4 stroke is to have a quieter second machine for hunting. I see you use yours for essentially that purpose, so your perspective is pretty valuable. Looking forward to any more updates you have time to post.

 

[20/80]

I like these sleds the the VK540 and the VKPRO, where I do not personally own one I have a buddy that runs with us from time to time, his is the newer VKpro, he has often broke trail for us and in his spare time tows a groomer for our club for something to do where he's retired he does a great job, I think he mentioned his pro was kinda jumpy at real slow speeds and suffered from the famous clutch rattle, I think he changed the primary spring to a lower engagement rate which helped a lot with the jumpiness at slow speeds, also he bought some rubber washer kit for his primary clutch from Schmidt brothers performance that quieted down the rattle a lot to near nothing, he loves his machine.

 

[YukonMP]

Hey Bill Biggs,

I should start by clearing up any misconception about me being a big hunter ... I have some good friends, all on skidoos, who are easily bored and have been after me for years to go out with them so they can reassure their egos by seeing how lame I am. The VK Pro was bought so I could take them up on their offers.

I have a few more observations to post and then I'll circle round and share some of my feeling s comparing the VK to the Exped. Others have noted and I concur that the VK is fumey, ie.anywhere near full and you will smell gas. The windshield is a nice height and there is very little distortion looking through the top inch or two(vs. the MP which is a real pain for anyone around 5'8''). The sled came with the suspension all set full soft. I don't have a lot of gear on it and I'm not big but I've went to the highest setting on the rear torsion spring. Part of the reason for that is climbing which unloads the skis too much if the rear end squats excessively.

So what about hunting? First to say no sled is perfect and it is just a case of picking your compromises. Next to say it is really dependent on conditions. But here are my thoughts. The 900ACE is totally stealthy, no question it is way quieter than the VK. That said, no one had any reservations about the noisier Yamaha and of course there were a lot bison taken before the 600/900ACE showed up and still are. I think the 2smoke smell lets them know hunters are around to a much greater degree. If we are in the open the wind usual covers the sound and if we're in the bush it is softened. For me not a game changer.

I'm in my sixties and winter hunting off snowmobiles is just plain tough. We had several consecutive days of -40C and I totally appreciate the comfort of the VK. The wind protection is better, the heated space for food and drinks is great, seat and seating position superior AND IT HAS POWER STEERING. Power steering and the Goldfinger(left hand throttle) really make the sled a lot easier to handle in tight difficult terrain.

I think the hood style and the space you have too work in is a big deal. Hunting is really hard on machines and any failure screws it up for everybody. We met a party that had spent a whole day going in and out to get their spare machine only to have a second machine act up the next day. We had one of our machines barely able to get out under its own power. I feel the lay out, access and sight lines of the VK lets me do a better job preparing for a trip and is easier to deal with in the field. Screwing around with panels and inadequate access/visibility gets tired real quick at 40 below. We were in places that might take two days just to recover a sled. A chopper could be required in the extreme.

Cold starting is the real bug bear. Two of the 900ACE scandics had 5 year old batteries that the guys hadn't changed in part because it is such a pain. That said they started when I didn't. Although broken in I expect I will loosen up but it turned over well. Access to a little AC for an hour is all we need. After one particularily frustrating morning I started running the machine for half an hour at bed time, half an hour in the middle of the night(I said we're older, we all get up at least once)and again first thing in the morning. Instead of cold soaking from 6 till 9 (15hrs) it sat about four which is nothing.

I am of the opinion that the VK is a more solidly built machine. Hard to be specific except the A arms and spindles which of course are vulnerable busting trail in deep snow. Although it doesn't look like much the bit of 'gull wing' curve they have gets them up out of the way a little more.

In the end either choice is good, neither of these sleds is the hands down winner. To be honest part of my decision was that I have a really good relationship with my dealer and I like hanging out with the TY gang, they have been really helpful to me, saved me a lot of time and money.

 

[Bill Biggs]

Hey Yukon MP,

Again, great post. I appreciate your modesty as well. You describe yourself as taking on this type of winter hunting fairly recently, however overnight cabin/tent experience at extreme temps with a snowmobile on a hunting trip is relatively rare, and someone who can articulate those experiences honestly and clearly is rarer still. Yourself and 20/80 have posted some very useful information. I am grateful to be able reap the benefits of your experience! hahaha.

Your second post makes a lot of great comparisons between the machines. My experience with 4 strokes is fairly limited, but in addition to my own VK 540 we have a couple snowmobiles that my work owns and I am able to use/maintain fairly regularly. Both are Skidoo Brand, one expedition sport with the 600 ace (2019), and one Expedition Wide Track with the 600 E Tec (2017). As you stated, the ace is amazing in how well it starts, really shocking for a four stroke. We had standard engine oil in ours from the factory, and it wasn't a reliable starter below -20. Once we swapped over to extreme cold engine oil after the break in point, it turns over much easier and consequently starts much better. We also installed a battery maintainer which we seem to use fairly regularly past -30 or so.

The 600 etec has actually given us some issues starting. This surprised the heck out of me that our 4 stroke was outperforming our 2 stroke for starting. We had -38 recently (without wind chill), and I could barely pull it over to soften the engine up. It wouldn't turn over at all with the battery, so I tried starting it with a booster pack. It would turn over, but after draining the booster pack and still not getting it fired up I figured I'd done enough damage to the starter for one day and called it. The cutoff seems to be about -30 for that machine. It's a low miler, and the engine has some wear in to do yet, so that may make a difference. My apologies for prattling on about Ski-Doo branded sleds, especially as a new member to this forum, but all that to say it appears that your VK Pro needing some TLC below -30 may not be a huge deal from my perspective. Having said that, you are seeing it used side by side with the Ace machines and are getting a direct apples/apples comparison when it comes to the starting conditions.

Don't feel you need to answer any more questions, you've already helped me out a ton, but I was wondering about gas in the oil. Our 600 ACE is very bad for dumping fuel into the crankcase when it's really cold. My thoughts are that all machines experience fuel issues below -25 or so. With my VK 540, it doesn't pump fuel as efficiently and I end up burning out plugs every few days below -30 or so. At under 6 bucks a plug and only about one minute to change, I'll deal with that all day. With the ACE the EFI seems to dump a ton of fuel into the system to keep it running while it warms up, and a lot of that fuel ends up in the crank case. My solution to that in the past with my ATV's has been to get the engine good and hot at op temp for an hour or so and evaporate the gas right out of there. This hasn't worked for the ACE, for us at least, and it looks like we may need to schedule mid-year oil changes depending on temperatures. You have about 2200 k on your VK PRO now, and have run in some pretty cold weather, have you noticed any gas or gassy smell in the oil?

One thing I have found about Yamaha, both from my experience, and in reading yours, and others, posts, is the consistency. All machines have weak points, but with the build quality of Yamaha you can pretty much figure those out in the first year and then plan for them, as you have done with keeping your engine warm through the night. I don't find I'm always fighting with new problems or broken parts, just the same issue or two that I can deal with.

Finally, that's great to hear you have a good relationship with your dealer. Our Yamaha dealer in the NWT shut down a few years back, and I've been dealing with the Yamaha dealer out of Whitehorse since then. They've been pretty good to work with as far as I'm concerned. I am actually moving to The Yukon this summer. I own a few Yamaha products and it's great to hear there are some good dealers in your Territory.

 

[YukonMP]

Yukon Yamaha is the only Yamaha dealer in the territory and we're lucky to have them. I could line guys up around the block that would agree that our Skidoo dealer is disappointing. Other adjectives come to mind but you get the idea. If you buy a Skidoo DO NOT buy an extended warranty because you will be dealing with the service department from hell. There is a really good independent shop that has invested in a lot of what it takes to work on Skidoos specifically and he is making a killing off Skidoos. More than once he has repaired BRP product that the Skidoo dealer couldn't. Another big difference is that the Yamaha dealer has a parts inventory, the Skidoo guys have next to nothing from what I can tell. All that said there are guys who don't see it as I do and that is likely situational.

I haven't detected gas in my oil, not in either of my Yamahas. Basically, I did the 800km breakin at -40C. There are a few "cold start" threads on TY and knowledgeable members with related job experience say EFI is generally too rich at start up in extreme cold. I know how it is when you feel that you are abusing the machine trying to get it to go in the cold. There is no way of telling but it seems harsh. There is a member in Nunavut and he could give us chapter and verse on starting in the cold.

The good news is I'm going out again for five days next week. So far a 900ACE swt skandic and a 1200 Expedition. Don't be shy about more questions as they occur and don't worry about talking skidoo so much. You are new around here so you haven't seen how far off base some of these threads go. The mods are great but we are an unruly lot.

 

[Bill Biggs]

Thanks YukonMP! Can't wait to hear how the trip goes. I hope you have a blast.

 

[YukonMP]

Yep, we had a blast, extended the trip a couple days and were successful. 3250kms on the new VK Pro, 1300 of them hunting. No question I struggle a bit to keep up to the SWT in the deeper snow. The guys can't believe how I can pull out of line and blow by them on the lake. That doesn't really bring much to the hunting thing but it is nice cruising the lake at home. When it comes to hauling the VK Pro is a beast. It has 50% more HP and nothing touches it in that category.

On a side note a brand new(200km) Scandic WT had a complete brake failure. Before we even got home we bumped into someone who said that wasn't the first he heard of this winter.

Yammy35 has asked a couple questions in another thread that I will answer here. Everyone has chosen the VK Pro over the Skandic WT for comfort, SWT is worse yet. The 900ACE is quieter by a good margin. I am not aware of track drone as a known issue on the VK. I believe there was a track change in 2018. I have mild track drone, not overly loud and only over a narrow speed range,

 

[Bill Biggs]

I'm very happy for your success. I'm sure you earned every bite of that Bison these past few weeks. I'm about out of questions, but thank you again for sharing what you've learned. If you have any cool pics of the VK Pro or the hunt, I'd love to see them myself.

Stay Healthy!!!

 

[YukonMP]

Had a thought this afternoon ... don't laugh, it has happened before.

A few times when I was stuck and once when I misread some crust the VK was basically on its side. Not once did I have oil warning lights or anything else. Much more forgiving than the MP.
Did the second trip with skid torsion springs full hard and it was bettter. Less bottoming out and more ski pressure/steering control when climbing.
We've been recruited to haul some loads down the lake next week. I'll be running with at least two SWTs. Keep ya posted.

 

[greatwhite89]

I also set the torsion springs on full hard on my 2020 RS Venture TF with much better results. Looking forward to hearing about your next adventure.

 

[YukonMP]

Just finished an in season service/checkup. I do them every 1000kms more or less. Nothing of note at 3256km. I have forgotten to mention that the gear shift is working much better now. That is so Yamaha ... I swear it takes two seasons to break them in.

Hope everyone is well, we are living in interesting times. Keep your head up and your stick on the ice.

 

[74Nitro]

I'll probably do this in a few posts but this is a start. Want to get this out to help out anyone considering a Spring Order. I picked up my 2020 VK Pro two months ago and have just over 2500 kms on it now. I really like the sled and am happy with my decision to get one. Because my old ride was an MP and because I hunt with skidoos there will be some comparisons but I'll start with my likes/dislikes. The likes first.

I like the heated underseat storage. We had three days of -40C on the last bison hunt and I had warm water and snacks at the end off the day. I like the exhaust turnouts(accessory/option). With them tunnel icing is minimal, again even on consecutive 90kms days off trail at -40C. The windshield/cowl configuration is awesome, more comprehensive than the Scandics or Expeditions. The seat is very comfortable and the envy off the skidoo boys. Of course the thing is a brute with 50% more HP than the 900Ace. But to tell the truth it isn't often used. One of the Scandics had to give up his skimmer and I came out pulling three but one was mostly empty gas cans. I like the seating position, front and back. Handwarmers are great and lights marginal. Power steering is awesome. It is so well done you don't even notice it except the steering is easy and quiet. I like the track and the 1.5 inch lug height. Mileage is better than I expected, 19l/100km. Looked like the 900s were using a little less.

Now for the dislikes. Would not start below -30C, just as the dealer told me. I had the coolant heater installed but haven't been able to judge its effectiveness because when it was cold at home I kept my new, not yet broken in baby in the shop. Then in the bush there was no power. In contrast the 900Aces always went, even the ones on 5 year old batteries. I really prefer the much maligned iTC throttle in this application. We do a lot of slow speed riding, basically at a walk sometimes. The VK throttle/power/gearing make it a bit to handle at slow speeds. The transmission is very noisy in low and shifting is difficult. Often I have to screw around to get it to shift and sometimes it is just quicker to shut it off. No such issues for the skidoos. I don't like the sight glass on the chaincase. The little plug you have to remove is stiff as heck in the cold and hard to remove or replace. Others have mentioned the frosting of the windshield, I had some but not bad.

More likes. The tub/hood is great. I wanted to get away from the plastic origami mess sleds have now a days and really enjoy the ease, space, and visibility it has. Skidoo boys have patience I don't have trying to remove and replace their panels. Just remembered, the clutches run COOL, I mean real cool, innner barely warm from engine.Even after a 64 km run pulling 3 skimmers they were cool. Cool, but obnoxiously noisy. I really like the handling of the sled in all conditions with the exception of the jerkiness when trying to creep/crawl. When the SWT were around they broke trail and I couldn't touch them. I did put one day in breaking trail with an expedition and we ended up with me in front, primarily because of side slope and I have a left hand throttle which the iTC doesn't accommodate. Really like having a Japan built Yamaha. The 900Ace guys start getting nervous and sell at 8000km. My MP has 15k km and that sled is not halfway done.

I will add to this as things occur to me or new stuff comes up. I'll do my best to answer your questions and welcome your suggestions.

I really think the sudden surge when trying to crawl along just when the sled is taking off is caused by the profile of the weight. The roller is coming over the bump on the weight onto the next angle. With the four strokes having so much more power down low than a two stroke, it amplifies this. I had a Vector owner complain of this and he switched to the 8DN-20 weights that don't have that engagement bump, problem solved.

 

[74Nitro]

Snowmobiling and hunting moose. I'm so jealous. When I retire, you just might end up meeting me in person. I would just love to spend late winter/early spring season up there.

 

[YukonMP]

I really think the sudden surge when trying to crawl along just when the sled is taking off is caused by the profile of the weight. The roller is coming over the bump on the weight onto the next angle. With the four strokes having so much more power down low than a two stroke, it amplifies this. I had a Vector owner complain of this and he switched to the 8DN-20 weights that don't have that engagement bump, problem solved.

Thanks for being so specific and including the part number. Good low range engagement and crawl are important features in a utility sled. After giving this some thought I think changing the weights is an easier and better option than a soft start spring. I'm not much of a modder but this is a good one. Thanks again.

Regards the hunting. Our Yukon bison hunt is very popular and runs to the end of the month. Our introduced herd is a genetic reserve in case the herds down south run into trouble(do bison get covid19?). They are doing very well, too well in fact, so if we don't get the job done the government might take action.