New '07 Attak Won't Start-it's not the relay....too cold???

[Tal]

Hi - I'm relatively new to the site and it has helped tremedously in my decision making to buy a new 07 Attak 2 weeks ago.

I'm looking for some clues to a problem I had last weekend. I know there's been threads on this subject, but a search on this didn't help, since it's actually not the relay.

I took my new Attak out for a long weekend to add some more miles to the 116mi I had so far for break-in, but had to come back early. It wouldn't start after spending a night in -28F. I heard the relay and the fuel pump come on every time I turned the key.

At late morning, about -19F, it would crackle and pop and try to fire up, but couldn't catch. I could hear the relay coming on every time I turned the key. After several attempts including jumpering to a running sled's battery I finally took the plugs out.

They were all soaking wet and there looked like bits of something in the groove around the anode. Cleaned and dried them and put it back together and it fired right up. So I went out and played for a couple of hours on the lake, stopping and starting about 3 times. Then I parked it for about 2 hours, and it started right up again.

It then spent the night in temperatures that reached -38F at one point for 4 hours. Got up and it was -27F. I waited and then tried to start it at about -10F, no go. Sounded exactly like the day before. So I removed the plugs again. They looked wet, not as bad as the day before, and gray colored. Cleaned and dried them and re-installed them. It wouldn't fire up. I tried it with the throttle wide open - no luck. Made several attempts, heard the relay come on evertime. I called my dealer, he said to put some heat on the oil can on the right side, but I couldn't do that as electricity was not readily available. We loaded it back up called the weekend off and went home

There were a lot of Yamahas where I was, which is unsual for Alaska, there were a lot of 4-strokes. Most of the others had "block heaters" and they asked if mine was plugged in overnight. I don't have any type of engine heater so the common thought was that it was just too cold. This is an area that is commonly known to get to -50F and worse every winter with a huge trail system and lots of cabins.

Any thoughts? I have it back now in 5 to 20F above zero temperatures, so I am just going to try and see if it will start now without doing anything else. It's 4F right now, so it got another cold night even though it will be 20F by late afternoon. I'm not convinced that it is all temperature related. But it's not the relay either. The gas tank was topped off and it had started and run fine when I loaded it the day before in 20F

What is the block heater solution for these sleds - anybody have a part number? I want to put one in, but the truth is 90% of the places I ride have no electricity to plug these in to anyway. Seems like I should be able to depend upon a machine starting at least -20F, shouldn't I? Is there a way to get this sled to start at these temps without requiring an electrical connection?

 

[Birdman]

Water in the fuel system, condensation?
"Bits of something" were moisture ?

 

[LazyBastard]

After getting 1000 miles on it, switch to a fairly light FULLY synthetic motor oil. This problem sounds like it might just be the plugs though - ngk plugs are crap and are so easy to foul that they'll even go bad on a 4-stroke.

Also FYI: Do NOT open the throttle to start, especially if its cold.

 

[Tal]

Thanks. I filled up at a real gas station in town. I did not open the throttle at all for a long time. Then I pasted it and tried. It sounded like it wasa going to start, but I ended up pulling the plugs.
BTW - the two stroke Poalris I had with me started everytime, it has the Tempaflo on it.

I just tried to strat it - it's 1F. It started for 3 seconds, stopped and is doing the same thing. I pulled it in to the garage. I'm thinking I will let it warm up and then try and start it. Just to find out.

Either way, I will change the plugs out. What is the best plug for these? Is there an engine warmer sold for them? Any truth to what the dealer suggested - warming the oil tank?

 

[SledFreak]

Just put the stock plugs back in, but I would switch to Full Synthetic, not semi/blend, and you need to run gas line antifreeze alot more than usual. Get the block heater put on. It's on the Yamaha web site....

 

[stoutner]

I had the same problem with my Apex RTX this winter up in Canada. My sled was sitting out all night at -35 to -40 F all night. It was about -25 to -20F when I tried to start it. It was trying to fire but wouldn't "catch".

I have the NGK CR10EK plugs in it. I have never had a problem with it starting before or since. I have almost 4000 miles on it now. I highly doubt that spark plugs is the problem.

I would bring a small propane torch with you. That way, you might be able to slowly heat the oil reservoir and block. Propane will work to about -40F....Butane will not!

I hate to say it...but maybe a shot of starter fluid into the airbox. If that works, drill a small hole in the side of the airbox so you can spray it in next time without having to remove the cover.

I did eventually get my sled started with a jumpstart and when it warmed up to about -15F.

 

[Tal]

Thanks.

My sled is still not starting, sitting in my 60F garage for about 2 hours now - the plugs are definitely fouled.

I have a new set of stock CR9EK plugs that I am going to install now, but I am not confident that I won't have this problem again. I'll order the coolant heater, p/n SMA-HEATR-CL-NT, but what will an inline coolant heater do? Doesn't it just heat the coolant in the hose near the heating element? How will that keep the engine warm?

Does anybody use one of those remote starters that start your sled every 4 hours?

 

[SledFreak]

I think these sleds that sit outside should be running the stock plug and not the CR10EK and also should be running Full Synthetic. Mine rattled at -15 one morning. Lifters wer emaking some serious noise for about 3 seconds when I left it out one night after a 180 miles ride one day. Did not like the sound of that. It was either the lifters or the bearings clacking away.

 

[stoutner]

I think these sleds that sit outside should be running the stock plug and not the CR10EK and also should be running Full Synthetic. Mine rattled at -15 one morning. Lifters wer emaking some serious noise for about 3 seconds when I left it out one night after a 180 miles ride one day. Did not like the sound of that. It was either the lifters or the bearings clacking away.

Sledfreak, I don't disagree with you about the CR10EK. I run them because I run Nitrous.

Man, these sleds do rattle when you first start them at -15f or below. It is pretty scary sounding for the first few seconds. That is why I "lightly" suggested trying starter fluid. I'm not too sure that would be good for the engine???? Probably not but it would probably start.

 

[stoutner]

Thanks.

My sled is still not starting, sitting in my 60F garage for about 2 hours now - the plugs are definitely fouled.

I have a new set of stock CR9EK plugs that I am going to install now, but I am not confident that I won't have this problem again. I'll order the coolant heater, p/n SMA-HEATR-CL-NT, but what will an inline coolant heater do? Doesn't it just heat the coolant in the hose near the heating element? How will that keep the engine warm?

Does anybody use one of those remote starters that start your sled every 4 hours?

Tal,

It's no fun changing those plugs huh? I've done it a few times while testing different plugs and can say that I am almost an expert at it now.

I can do it in about 1 hour now .....lol

 

[BlueMax]

The magic number for starting most any fuel injected vehicle is -30 f. Most will have trouble starting at this temp or below if left out long enough without a coolant heater. The fuel you have in the tank also makes a difference at those temps. This is why you were asked the question about being plugged in when you had troubles in Alaska. Usually they will start once the temp has warmed up but occasionally the plugs are fouled enough they will not start. If you can get it started, the plugs will be fine.

 

[Tal]

Help!!

I just found that my Attak came stock with CR9EB, NOT CR9EK ---- could this have been my problem?

The EB has a knob type end on it the top of the plug - the EK has the screw thread on top - do I need the little cap to screw on to the threads to use thh EK? where do you get them?

3 of the 4 EB plugs came out very wet.

 

[Riceburner]

Normally the knob type plugs are considered better than the screw type.

I do not know about the Apex but I remember a couple of years ago that if you flooded an RX1 and fouled the plugs it was strongly recommended you replace them.

I would replace yours.

Have you talked to your dealer? There must be more than one Apex/Attak running in the area in similar conditions to yours.

My Apex seems happier starting at - 27 than My Nissan Pathfinder.

 

[Another Phase]

Does the fuel pump put any amount of fuel into the cylinders when the key is turned on and the pump is pressurising the system? I was told not to turn the key off and then back on when repeatedly trying to start these as it would flood it.

I assumed it would only spray fuel when cranking, not when the key was turned on. Maybe there is some sort of initial purge to richen things up for starting.

 

[Another Phase]

Tal,

I would consider changing your oil right away as you may have alot of fuel in there if has been flooded more than once.