"NEW FX130 MID SEASON"

[sniperviper]

I would really like to know the ACTUAL weight difference between the 80 and 120. Not some preconcieved notion of how much more it weighs. Lets remember the 120 has no gear reduction mass to include so we're talking 3-4 more inches of cam, crank, balance shaft and a cylinder.

Lets hear some guesses. Is it 5,10,15,20......

My guess is 15 lbs. and NO concerns about my fillings falling out.

Somebody start a new poll!!!

RS engine: 53kg/116,6lbs
PZ engine 34kg/75,7lbs
Apex 54kg/118,8lbs

http://www.ty4stroke.com/viewtopic.php? ... s&start=15

 

[morrisond]

So 40lbs difference, which is why i don't think it makes it into the Phazer Chasis as a consumer sled, unless they lose a lot of weight elsewhere. I would guess they could make an 750 tripple only 15 lbs more than the 500 as they would save the weight from not having to have an counterbalancer. An 750 tripple at 12,000 can make 130 easy and with the gear reduction the amount of torque at the crank should actually be better than the Nytro Motor(90lbs+), and you get to keep your fillings!

 

[BBM]

The other explanation why it would be a Nytro Motor is because it does not have gear reduction like the current Phazer and the Apex. The Nytro motor only revs around the 8000rpm range. The current racing regs. do not allow a sled with gear reduction to race. The weight difference would be around 20-25lbs, this would put the Phazer with the Nytro motor just under 500lbs dry.

 

[morrisond]

That is incorrect about the gear reduction. 4 Strokes up to 1050 are allowed, but other configurations(ie Gear Reduced 4 strokes) wil lbe allowed it's just a question of how big.

How do you get to only a 25lb difference? Yammie lists the FX at 487, adding 40 lbs to that gets to 527 - way too heavy.

 

[Oak Hill]

I quess we will find out in the next couple of months. As far as the Vector motor being a slow rever, I just do not see it. It revs very fast and revs to 8,700rpm. This engine was designed from the begining for a snowmobile and will be around for a very long time. The Vector engine is by far the best 4 stroke on the market. New rules allow 1050cc 4 stroke. Also no gear reducers are allowed for racing. That is why the Vector motor is being used.

 

[getchuk]

How much titanium magnesium is used on the vector engine, i guess there is some weight to loose there, as they did on the Apex

 

[DoktorC]

1050cc...hmmm how about just adding horsepower until weight doesn't matter any more lol. FX140??

 

[getchuk]

Why 1050?? or is it 1056 as the ac Z1?

 

[morrisond]

I quess we will find out in the next couple of months. As far as the Vector motor being a slow rever, I just do not see it. It revs very fast and revs to 8,700rpm. This engine was designed from the begining for a snowmobile and will be around for a very long time. The Vector engine is by far the best 4 stroke on the market. New rules allow 1050cc 4 stroke. Also no gear reducers are allowed for racing. That is why the Vector motor is being used.

Have you tried the Phazer? I rode it back to back with our Nytro. I thought the Nytro was a fast revver until I tried the Phazer. The Phazer feels like a dirt bike engine, and the Nytro revved relatively slow, almost like a diesel.

I read the WSA rules it specifically mentions that other configurations (i.e. Gear reduced engines) will be allowed just not 1050cc. When a manufacturer has a new design it has to be submitted for equivalency approval.

Come the end of January we will know for sure. Everything is pure speculation at this point, and nothing we say now will change Yammies plans for '08 which were probably set 18 months ago.

The Vector motor is a nice motor, but I find it's best application is in our Venture, well suited to the task and I can see Yamaha keeping it for quite a while for the cruiser market alone(huge part of the market) in EFI form for years to come.

 

[Oak Hill]

morrisond: I rode the Phazers last March and they are impresive sleds. I like a little more power for my liking. They rev fast, but I think you will find next year when Yamaha runs against the 600cc 2 smokes they will be very competitive. They are running in the open class this year for R&D testing. I wish I could find the print on gear reduction, but have read several articles, that it will not be allowed in 08 season. I could be wrong. Yamaha will be very competitive and win races, just give them time. As far as a Twin, it could be possible. Yamaha has a winner on its hands with the Phazer and with a little more power, wether a twin or triple, they will be #1 in sled sales. We will all find out very soon!

 

[SharkAttak]

what about porting and cam's on the phazer, someone will mod the phazer, what about fundy, let him get a hold of it, i'm sure he can get 90-95 h.p. out of it without a turbo

 

[Phazer dude]

maybe there going to change all the sleds to the phazer body style 150 h.p., 120 h.p. and 80 h.p. except the 150 and 120 would be 100 lbs. lighter

If they did that than they would have to beef up the chasis to be able to withstand that weight of thoes engins.....i think that it would look kinda wierd with a four cylinder engine in there if now there is a two cylinder and it jsut fits. If you tried to get a four in there it is twice as big and the front end woudl have to be huge......now it wouldnt look like a phazer anymore.....kind of like the hummers now there not hummers andy more.

 

[AKrider]

I'm positive there will not be a late season release of the new sled that will be available for sale. That isn't the way Yamaha does business.

I don't see Yamaha coming out with another brand new motor. There is nothing wrong with the Vector motor and it has the best durability. If the engine is rolled back far enough, it shouldn't seem nose heavy. I'd much rather have the triple than a high strung, vibrating 900 twin.

 

[morrisond]

Why wouldn't they do the 750 Triple? Same Cylinder and Head Design, just have to design new cases and crank.

We have to remember that although the Vector is a great motor it is based on 3 Cylinders of the FJR 1300 an engine which has been around for at least a decade and is knowwhere near state of the art. It was not designed from scratch, it was relatively easy for Yamaha to do even as a stopgap for a few years(Although I think it sticks around in EFI form for the Touring sleds). The Specific Output of the Vector even in an 130HP EFI Form is seriously lacking compared to the Current Superbike State of the Art of 165-180Hp per liter. With Gear reduction of the primary and CVT transmissions there is no real downside to using High revving modern designs other than Longevity, and Yamaha seems to have that licked at a current 150hp liter in the APEX motor and Assuming the Phazer motor is solid at 160hp per liter at close to 12,000 rpm in a vibration prone twin.

It will be really disappointing if Yammie sticks the Nytro motor in the Phazer, too much of a compromise.

 

[Grimm]

I don't see Yamaha coming out with another brand new motor. There is nothing wrong with the Vector motor and it has the best durability. If the engine is rolled back far enough, it shouldn't seem nose heavy. I'd much rather have the triple than a high strung, vibrating 900 twin.

I second that!