New-To-Me Apex - help setting up suspension/steering?

[DigitalFusion]

Hey All,

I recently acquired an 06 Apex GT from a fellow TY'er (thanks Seldneck!) and now that I have a decent amount of miles under my belt with the machine, I think I have discovered the issues I would like to address. Im sorry if there is a lack of info on settings. I spent the entire weekend just riding it and trying to get a feel for it, and now its dark and I am struggling to keep my eyes open, so I dont want to venture outside to check settings right now! Here is what the machine is equipped with:

Front:
- stock skis with single 6" carbides (i think they are 6? Sledneck?)
- Fox Floats (will check pressure settings tomorrow)
- unknown if its shimmed (sledneck?)
- stock sway bar

Rear:
- stock skid with low mileage Ohlins out of an 09
- elec control removed, set at middle
- Ice Ripper XT track
- Limiter straps seem loose (will check where they are set tomorrow)


I have four main issues:

1) heavy steering when under low/moderate throttle
2) darting on hard pack
3) understeer/plowing under moderate/high throttle
4) inside ski lift in corners

I would guess based off my limited experience that I would need to take some air out of the floats to help with the heavy steering? Are there baseline settings or anything to go with, or is it just a guess and check type of situation?

What about the understeer under power? Would tightening up the spring on the rear shock help keep the rear from compressing, and then in-turn keep the skis down? I dont ride wheelies everytime I hit the gas, but I did notice that the headlight would stop shining anywhere near the ground when I would really get after it, and I did feel the suspension bottom out a few times on some of the bumpier sections of trail.

For the darting I have no idea other than checking the alignment? If it was too much ski pressure and I backed it off, then I would have no steering at all under throttle? Are the carbides too long?

No matter how far I lean my 5'8" 150lb body off to the inside of a turn, I get a lot of ski lift. Seems like the fix for this is to pick up the 13mm sway bar? I have pretty much exhausted all my extra money on buying the sled, so I wont be ordering a sway bar anytime soon. Is there anything else I can do in the meantime other than eating thousands of calories more each day?

 

[DigitalFusion]

Ok its lunch break so I was able to justify spending some time searching here. Man there is a lot of info in these forums! Anyways...

I think the heavy steering might be the steering bushings? I did notice a bit of squeaking from the machine, but I chalked it up to it being cold out. I guess I will try and lube em up and see if it helps. Worse case its only about 18 bucks to replace em all.

Sounds the like the darting can be resolved by either doolies or bergstroms carbides and shimming the skis. Apparently, these can also help with the push I was experiencing. Two birds there!

I think I need some more seat time on the machine for the ski lift situation. I noticed it seemed to happen more often at the end of the ride, when I was tired from fighting with the steering through the twisties. Perhaps I just wasnt hanging off as far.

 

[Evil Santa]

Search is your friend. I did the Longer links and Lower Pressure in the Floats helped Big time. I don't know about the Apex but I'm at 45 in the front on the Ton. I'm a Trail ripper though. Getting the right weight transfer is Key also. Keep playing with it your on the right track

 

[Malmlof]

I had the rubber grommets around the steering linkage causing drag, I lubed them with silicon oil and it got alot better.

Inside skilift can be minimized by shortening the limiter strap, mine is in the shortest position. You also get better steering on power.
You can also try some harder rebound on the skid shock to get more control.

Check for correct sag of the rear suspension, there is good threads about this on the site.

Good Luck.

//Richard Malmlöf Sweden

 

[sledneck22]

They are 6" Stud boy shaper bars in the front. They are brand new so I didn't have much time to set them up as there was Woodies duelies on before. It will dart the way it is set up now. No shims in the skis.
Limiter strap is one hole from being al the way extended. Transfer rod is set at 75% between max and half.
I do believe the floats are at 55 lbs as I am a little bigger than you. Putting them at 45lbs will help you a lot. I just had it set up to take off out of the hole basically. As turning, I could lean into the turns.
I just replaced all the steering bushing before this year as well and greased them so that shouldn't be a concern. The squeek to what I believe is the bit of play from the a-arm and bulkhead bushing that I told you about. If anything that is where the play is. I just ordered some dartless plates for the new sled I just ordered so I can let you know how those treat my new sled for the darting issues with the 6" shaper bars.
The pushing or plowing won't be experienced when you remove some of the transfer I have in the rear skid. You turn the transfer rod down some and it keep those skis tight in the corners.

 

[sk-rx1]

In addition to what's above I would try changing the transfer rod setting to 1/2 way from std to min. You will lose some bite but it will take away that understeer during acceleration. After you give it a try you can go back toward std if you want until it starts to bother you. To some degree all the changes affect each other so trail and error will be normal

 

[sledneck22]

Also, I plum out forgot to say something on this... When I removed the headlight to take off the longer throttle cable I adjusted the headlights. I used my best judgement in the garage to set it up but didn't have time to check it while riding. If you take off the plastic piece which the ac outlet and keyswitch is in there is a 12mm or 10mm adjsutment screw you can mess with to adjust the lights. It is on the rear of the headlight. Sorry for forgetting that.

 

[DigitalFusion]

Thanks All!

I pulled the machine into the garage and have her thawing out. Sounds like I need to try the following:

- drop the floats down to 45
- try shimming the skis (1/4"?)

If she still exibits issues then start messing with the rear? I have zero complains about the ride quality of the skid/rear suspension. It bottomed out a few times on the rough stuff, but from what I read in the sticky here is that this common due to the valving on the factory shocks.

The high beam of the headlights is great, could be a touch lower, but i have no complaints. The low beam is really low. I was reading this is a known issue, and that shimming the lights would help fix this. I didnt read the entire post, just bookmarked it for later reading. Altho I wouldnt be shocked if you had already done this? You seemed to have tackled every single maintenance issue and fix on this machine. I dont think I could have bought a sled from a better seller!

EDIT: Thats great to know about the steering bushings. Seems like every time I turn around there is yet another thing that has been taken care of on this machine. The bushings you mentioned I should replace, and are referring as the possible culprits of the squeak to are #28 and #37 on this, correct?

 

[sledneck22]

I did not shim the headlights... I left them on hi unless I met an oncoming sled and was leading the group.
I don't know if I would suggest buying the bushings from Yamaha. You are better off saving some bones for either Ulmers Oilite Bushings or Pioneer performance Bushings. That way they last forever. Yamahas will just wear back out in 1000 miles.
Ohh and according to the parts finche:
28 upper bulkhead
37,61 lower bulkhead
18,56 upper spindle
18/57 lower spindle
Im glad you like the sled too! I probably sold you the cheapest Apex on the market this year!!! Now I just need to get my new one home. Going to pick it up tomorrow!

 

[DigitalFusion]

yeah I left em on high unless passing a sled also. Trouble is that a lot of trails round here skirt the roads quite often, and I kept having to turn them to low for every car, or every line of cars. I think I will try the shimming and see what it does.

Looks like I will have to wait until Ulmers gets more in stock, they are out right now. I'll have her jacked up tonight to adjust the floats so I will try and check the freeplay in them.

 

[DigitalFusion]

so much for getting to wrench on the sled today... started work at 7:30m and just finished! Hopin to be able to take a half day tomorrow cause I think we were going to shoot for a mid-week/Wednesday ride, and I want to try and dial this thing in a bit!

 

[DigitalFusion]

The control arm bushings are so worn that some fell out when I removed the bolts. All of the bulkhead bushings are beyond what I would even think of calling worn. Some are paper thin, others are worn compltely thru on the bottoms, and others are gone, only the outter ring is left. I dont even want to know if the bulkhead is auged out!

So... I think it would be safe to say its time for a real bushing kit and not that cheap plastic OEM junk! Ulmers is out of stock of their bushing kit. I read a few posts that some people were finding them at dealers. I am going to call every dealer within a 2 hour drive tomorrow morning!

 

[sledneck22]

Sorry buddy... That's the one thing I wanted to do but never got around to it.... I would guess some oilites would take care of everything though. Even if there is a little egging, chances are those will tighten them right up.

 

[DigitalFusion]

thats what I am hoping for. I dont have a caliper for measuring diameter/roundness, but I tossed my slide calipers on there and it doesnt seem too outta whack.

how was the new sled?

 

[sledneck22]

I am thouroughly impressed. I bought the apex mtx. I thought I'd have to do a bunch a tweeking to get it to handle but I rode just fine tonight without a problem! Can't wait to try the dartless because stock carbldes and first person across a freshly ribboned trail = massive darting. But other than that super happy. But I should be with a sled that started the night with zero miles! I also thought I'd be regearing after a while as well but I am really liking the low end power and drivability. Plus being breakin so I didn't hammer on it. I am confident ill still see 100 on the dreamometer. Which is fast enough!