****** o7-o6 warmers.. WARNING meltdown of CPU *******

[Tork]

Hope this does not cause a stir.
A TY member who has temporarily had his posting rights restricted here has come up with a solution for the 07's.

No prob, Riceburner. account reinstated like 2 days ago and 87's fixes are welcomed here same as anybody elses.
IMHO informed, civil, balanced and on topic posts work best with complicated topics. Anything else derails possible solutions coming to light.

his thoughts would have been correct if the change in wiring was made POST the switch/control...it is BEFORE the switch/control

Who are you speaking about? Many things going on here LOL

 

[Genesis Extreme]

Guys, Thought I would clarify one last thing on this issue then I am done. This is fact right from the 06 and 07 service manuals. The 06 apex wiring runs the grip warmers in series. The 07 wiring runs the grip warmers in parallel. With the 06 update for grip warmers, yamaha gives you a adapter harness that converts the wiring from series to parallel just as the 07 sleds come from the factory. The resistance spec of the 06 grip element and the 07 grip element is the exact same - 1.83 to 2.24 ohms at 68 degree f. With these simple facts, to me, proves that it doesnt matter what grip you run, there is noway you are going to burn out the ecu prematurely because the resistance of the 06 and 07 grip are the same and in the end both sleds end up to be wired the same. The 06 grip just is a way more effecient heating element and the bar ends had no effect of how well they worked. Facts right from yamahas service manuals prove it. I also believe that the apex power supply is awsome that is why the 06 grips are so warm at lower settings once it is wired properly. The only thing you are going to burn out is the grips themselves prematurely from running them at too high of settings if above 3 or 4 on your meter scale. Research this out at your dealer in there manuals if you dont believe me. Hope this helps everyones unease. Brian

This is exactly the way I see it. I am in NO WAY knowledgeable in the field of electronics......but if you stand back and take a good look at this.....it makes perfect sence and is logical. Nothing has changed electrically to the snowmobile......only the grips have changed from 07 to 06.....hence......it would make sence that the grips should be the only thing to fail if turned up too high.....because Hot Grips heat better than any other grip on the market.

Now don't go blasting me....LOL! ........this is just the way I see it working.

 

[Bigmax]

To the Electrically Uneducated eye I'm sure both systems look the same. And if you don't know how to check or what you're checking, then I suppose you would have to believe what you read on a piece of paper.

But here's my take on it... I haven't measured them myself but from what I can tell some people on here have actually measured the resistance of both the old grips and the new grips and stated that the new grips are about 2 times as much resistance as the old ones. If that's the case, then the way you hook them up makes all the difference in the world. And it doesn't matter what you've read somewhere, the measured value is going to be a fact.

Now from a logical standpoint... if the resistance in the grips were the same between 06 & 07 and Yamaha could have "fixed" problem by just re-wiring then they would have just come out with the pigtail to re-wire your existing grips instead of giving you the pigtail and the bars. They're going to do what's easiest & cheapest...

 

[yamahey]

Guys, Thought I would clarify one last thing on this issue then I am done. This is fact right from the 06 and 07 service manuals. The 06 apex wiring runs the grip warmers in series. The 07 wiring runs the grip warmers in parallel. With the 06 update for grip warmers, yamaha gives you a adapter harness that converts the wiring from series to parallel just as the 07 sleds come from the factory. The resistance spec of the 06 grip element and the 07 grip element is the exact same - 1.83 to 2.24 ohms at 68 degree f. With these simple facts, to me, proves that it doesnt matter what grip you run, there is noway you are going to burn out the ecu prematurely because the resistance of the 06 and 07 grip are the same and in the end both sleds end up to be wired the same. The 06 grip just is a way more effecient heating element and the bar ends had no effect of how well they worked. Facts right from yamahas service manuals prove it. I also believe that the apex power supply is awsome that is why the 06 grips are so warm at lower settings once it is wired properly. The only thing you are going to burn out is the grips themselves prematurely from running them at too high of settings if above 3 or 4 on your meter scale. Research this out at your dealer in there manuals if you dont believe me. Hope this helps everyones unease. Brian

This is exactly the way I see it. I am in NO WAY knowledgeable in the field of electronics......but if you stand back and take a good look at this.....it makes perfect sence and is logical. Nothing has changed electrically to the snowmobile......only the grips have changed from 07 to 06.....hence......it would make sence that the grips should be the only thing to fail if turned up too high.....because Hot Grips heat better than any other grip on the market.

Now don't go blasting me....LOL! ........this is just the way I see it working.

Guys, like has been said about 1,000 times in this topic, there is a huge difference. Yes, they are the same resistance, about 2 ohms. In series the resistance adds and is 4 ohms. In parallel it will be half (since they are equal value) and is 1 ohm. That means 4 times the current for a given voltage and therefore 4 times the heat. Gade or someone pointed out the circuit contol is PWM, that is the voltage is pulsed to the elements and the contol varies the duty cycle (length of the pulse) to raise or lower the average power as the adjustment is toggled. So, for a given setting there will be an equal pulse of 12V but this pulse will provide 4 times the current and therefore power. This larger current could cause a problem with the ECU. Testing to date has shown that it hasn't. But since we don't know what the circuit is designed to provide worst case without damage, we don't know for sure if a problem will eventually develop.

 

[Turtle]

Guys, like has been said about 1,000 times in this topic, there is a huge difference. Yes, they are the same resistance, about 2 ohms. In series the resistance adds and is 4 ohms. In parallel it will be half (since they are equal value) and is 1 ohm. That means 4 times the current for a given voltage and therefore 4 times the heat. Gade or someone pointed out the circuit contol is PWM, that is the voltage is pulsed to the elements and the contol varies the duty cycle (length of the pulse) to raise or lower the average power as the adjustment is toggled. So, for a given setting there will be an equal pulse of 12V but this pulse will provide 4 times the current and therefore power. This larger current could cause a problem with the ECU. Testing to date has shown that it hasn't. But since we don't know what the circuit is designed to provide worst case without damage, we don't know for sure if a problem will eventually develop.

You are exactly correct - I couldn't have said it better myself.

The other thread here that addresses this same issue, I posted pictures of the signal that I actually measured. You can see the PWM signal and how the duty cycle changes from a low setting to a hi setting.

 

[mnf7sp]

I am looking at making a solid state circuit and use some battery power. what is the width of the pulse or frequency?

 

[Turtle]

I am looking at making a solid state circuit and use some battery power. what is the width of the pulse or frequency?

The duty cycle is 6 milliseconds. The "on" portion of that cycle ranges from 1 to 3 milliseconds, depending on the grip setting.

 

[Coondog2707]

Wow. I am getting dizzy!