smokeless1
Pro
Okay, after running all winter with my 04 mountain hot light going on in all types of snow...including powder, I have had it.
Background:
I am not a brand specific buyer. I see something I like and I buy it. Most of todays sleds are pretty nice compared to the stuff made only a decade ago. Life is short, so why not.
I own 2 articat 4 stroker two up machines with EFI.
I own one Yammie Mountain. (buddy bought identical machine)
I just bought a brand new 04 polaris switchback 144.
Now the facts:
I bought the non-turbo units for my friends and family to ride, and to use as work horses to pull stuff and carry corn to fee deer, etc. They are great machines.
You can idle the articats for hours and they don't seem to ever overheat.
You don't even need to move them over snow. Hense, I can hit the key, and gear up with boots and equipment, gather possessions and by the time i get on the machine 15 even 20 minutes later, it is ready to ride and has to date never over heated on me not once. That EFI is nice. 20 below and if it cranks over (and it hasn't failed me yet) it starts. Weeks of sitting in the trailer can be bruitally cold, but if it cranks it starts and runs flawlessly all weekend long.
Bought second sled of same style and year the following year and it too has never over heated on me.
Now I bought the yammie and from day one it has at some point or other run the heat light on. Control on this is my friends mountain of same age and vintage and his gets hot almost exactly at the same time as mine. Either getting to the snowfields or getting back, in cold or warm temps, in all varieties of snow conditions. Sometimes runs for several hours, with no light. Then on it goes and you have to stop or grab snow. I go to dealer. He says "machine is new" and "needs breaking in" I ride. The light lights up and I get the same no matter what the temps. It never seems to shut down, except for one 10 minute idle when it was brand new. But I was/am getting tired of having to stop and load my running board to cooler her down. Back to the dealer. Dealer admits that the mountains and warriors and vipers are "having a problem" and that he is "calling Yammie" to see what they will do about it.
Yammie says "what problem?" Dealer hangs head and says they refuse to acknowledge the obvious problems that everyone has been having.
Dealer says, Yammie has developed an "excessory" cooler for Viper, Mountain and Warrior. I say, "what a coincidence." Dealer says, yammie will "come around" eventually. I said, "you know what?" "Yammie isn't the only manufacturer of snowmobiles." Dealer says, "all 05's will have the OPTIONAL exchangers on them. I say, imagine that??
There is a saying that says, "You can get me once and shame on you." But "you get me twice, and shame on me."
I liked the looks of the triple cylinder job and the price was affordable. "But ", I say "It is a yammie, and we know what happens if there is a problem....I mean, the need for an "excessory" to keep it running.
Bought polaris switchback. Quiet, powerful, not too smelly, and rides very nicely. Handles terrifically. No temp guage, but neither did the RX.
So I bought another sled, retaining my mountain and purchasing my "excessories....Temp guage, coolant shutoff to carbs, gas line shutoff's, rear heat exchanger.
Total cost about $150. Total savings to yammie...about $150.
New Switchback cost $6,300. Total profit to Polaris....????. Total profit to yammie -0-!
Any questions?? Oh, one more thing....Switchback first ride this weekend, and no hot light came on in "low snow" conditions. Didn't even try to take the mountain out. I knew exactly what was going to happen, if I did.
You can stay with what "bites" you, new makes and models, but I can tell you that it will be a grey day in the mojave, before I buy another yammie.
Articats had two recalls and fixed before they broke. Jury is out on the switchback. I will check back on this later.
Point is that sometimes the Corporate bosses need to get their heads out of the clouds and stop listening to the bean counters. In order to have beans to count, you have to keep and RETAIN CUSTOMERS.
Nice machine, my mountain. But very poor service from the company that sells them. End of story. Come back next winter.
Background:
I am not a brand specific buyer. I see something I like and I buy it. Most of todays sleds are pretty nice compared to the stuff made only a decade ago. Life is short, so why not.
I own 2 articat 4 stroker two up machines with EFI.
I own one Yammie Mountain. (buddy bought identical machine)
I just bought a brand new 04 polaris switchback 144.
Now the facts:
I bought the non-turbo units for my friends and family to ride, and to use as work horses to pull stuff and carry corn to fee deer, etc. They are great machines.
You can idle the articats for hours and they don't seem to ever overheat.
You don't even need to move them over snow. Hense, I can hit the key, and gear up with boots and equipment, gather possessions and by the time i get on the machine 15 even 20 minutes later, it is ready to ride and has to date never over heated on me not once. That EFI is nice. 20 below and if it cranks over (and it hasn't failed me yet) it starts. Weeks of sitting in the trailer can be bruitally cold, but if it cranks it starts and runs flawlessly all weekend long.
Bought second sled of same style and year the following year and it too has never over heated on me.
Now I bought the yammie and from day one it has at some point or other run the heat light on. Control on this is my friends mountain of same age and vintage and his gets hot almost exactly at the same time as mine. Either getting to the snowfields or getting back, in cold or warm temps, in all varieties of snow conditions. Sometimes runs for several hours, with no light. Then on it goes and you have to stop or grab snow. I go to dealer. He says "machine is new" and "needs breaking in" I ride. The light lights up and I get the same no matter what the temps. It never seems to shut down, except for one 10 minute idle when it was brand new. But I was/am getting tired of having to stop and load my running board to cooler her down. Back to the dealer. Dealer admits that the mountains and warriors and vipers are "having a problem" and that he is "calling Yammie" to see what they will do about it.
Yammie says "what problem?" Dealer hangs head and says they refuse to acknowledge the obvious problems that everyone has been having.
Dealer says, Yammie has developed an "excessory" cooler for Viper, Mountain and Warrior. I say, "what a coincidence." Dealer says, yammie will "come around" eventually. I said, "you know what?" "Yammie isn't the only manufacturer of snowmobiles." Dealer says, "all 05's will have the OPTIONAL exchangers on them. I say, imagine that??
There is a saying that says, "You can get me once and shame on you." But "you get me twice, and shame on me."
I liked the looks of the triple cylinder job and the price was affordable. "But ", I say "It is a yammie, and we know what happens if there is a problem....I mean, the need for an "excessory" to keep it running.
Bought polaris switchback. Quiet, powerful, not too smelly, and rides very nicely. Handles terrifically. No temp guage, but neither did the RX.
So I bought another sled, retaining my mountain and purchasing my "excessories....Temp guage, coolant shutoff to carbs, gas line shutoff's, rear heat exchanger.
Total cost about $150. Total savings to yammie...about $150.
New Switchback cost $6,300. Total profit to Polaris....????. Total profit to yammie -0-!
Any questions?? Oh, one more thing....Switchback first ride this weekend, and no hot light came on in "low snow" conditions. Didn't even try to take the mountain out. I knew exactly what was going to happen, if I did.
You can stay with what "bites" you, new makes and models, but I can tell you that it will be a grey day in the mojave, before I buy another yammie.
Articats had two recalls and fixed before they broke. Jury is out on the switchback. I will check back on this later.
Point is that sometimes the Corporate bosses need to get their heads out of the clouds and stop listening to the bean counters. In order to have beans to count, you have to keep and RETAIN CUSTOMERS.
Nice machine, my mountain. But very poor service from the company that sells them. End of story. Come back next winter.
LazyBastard
TY 4 Stroke God
If you read, in another thread it shows that Yamaha is offering a similar program for rear heat exchangers on RX1 as on Viper.
Also, if you ride the machine in the conditions it was meant for, deep, it won't overheat. If it does overheat in the deep, it means that you've got a nasty air bubble somewhere in the system and it needs to be bled.
Personally, I ride what was once a shorty, and I never saw the heat light until both stretching to 144" and riding for a mile on dry pavement at 5k rpm with 15 degree temperatures outside.
I did add the rear heat exchanger, and now I'm certain that it can't overheat under any condition that I would consider riding it in.
Why would you want to idle the motor for 15 to 20 minutes anyways?
Also, if you ride the machine in the conditions it was meant for, deep, it won't overheat. If it does overheat in the deep, it means that you've got a nasty air bubble somewhere in the system and it needs to be bled.
Personally, I ride what was once a shorty, and I never saw the heat light until both stretching to 144" and riding for a mile on dry pavement at 5k rpm with 15 degree temperatures outside.
I did add the rear heat exchanger, and now I'm certain that it can't overheat under any condition that I would consider riding it in.
Why would you want to idle the motor for 15 to 20 minutes anyways?
JDKRXW
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
LazyBastard said:
I'd have to agree about the nasty bubble that both you AND YOUR BUDDY have. Do you both have work done at the same dealer?
I also wonder why you would idle 20 mins after start up.
Mighty
TY 4 Stroke God
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I too believe these sled are made for certain conditions, like Mountains with tons of powder. I'd like to know what mountains in Michigan you ride on?
I also believe the Genesis extreme putting out almost 100 more HP compared to those cats will tend to run a little warmer :ORC
I also believe the Genesis extreme putting out almost 100 more HP compared to those cats will tend to run a little warmer :ORC
The RX1 is not built to be a utility sled it's a performance sled. With the engine compartment as crowded as it is and the bulk of a four stroke heating things up in there it's gonna run hot! The manual clearly indicates not to idle for extended periods of time they need to breath. While I agree there are some known issues with cooling on some of these sled's while riding, what has yet to be figured out is why some do it and others don't. I have 3300 miles on my 03 shorty and it has never overheated on me while riding and thats in some pretty marginal conditions. As for them being deep powder machines only I do not believe that for a minute mine has never seen deep powder 
maybe next year 
maybe next year 
VT_BluYamaha54
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Convert said:The RX1 is not built to be a utility sled it's a performance sled. With the engine compartment as crowded as it is and the bulk of a four stroke heating things up in there it's gonna run hot! The manual clearly indicates not to idle for extended periods of time they need to breath. While I agree there are some known issues with cooling on some of these sled's while riding, what has yet to be figured out is why some do it and others don't. I have 3300 miles on my 03 shorty and it has never overheated on me while riding and thats in some pretty marginal conditions. As for them being deep powder machines only I do not believe that for a minute mine has never seen deep powder
Convert - One thing that is fueling this RX-1 overheating "buzz" is the fact folks on this forum seem to keep "lumping" ALL RX-1's together. The RX-1 models that have documented overheating issues are only the long track models - ie WARRIOR and RX MOUNTAIN. A properly air bled RX-1 (aka "shorty") DOES NOT SEEM TO HAVE THE OVERHEATING PROBLEM everyone is discussing. The theory is that the crossover tube on the "shorties" receives sufficient snow from the track to remove heat faster than it is added. However, it is still possible to cause these sleds to overheat by operating them in conditions that do not provide sufficient snow to hit the rear crossover.
There are exceptions, and the fact that some Warriors do not seem to overheat is apparently being researched by Yamaha. The fact that the overheating light is not coming on does not mean the sled may be very hot. RICEBURNER has a Warrior that has never had the light come on but has melted his boots because of the high temp of the runnung boards.
Mighty
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Convert said:As for them being deep powder machines only I do not believe that for a minute mine has never seen deep powder
I was refering to smokeless1, he has a Mountain RX-1.
smokeless1
Pro
Okay the thrust of the responses on this thread is that if the machines...and I mean plural here, is that there is some unique issue to these two sleds.
If everyone has been reading much of what has been reported on this board, then clearly there are lots and lots of "unique" issues which have caused them to run with the hot light on. That by definition means that it is not unique at all, simply tolerated.
Yes both machines came out of and are serviced by the same dealership which sells lots of these machines mostly warriors and the dealer admits that there is a problem. They have seen them first hand, NOT just these two sleds.
It can't be a coincidence that yammer has decided to make add on heat exchangers.
And even if this was unique to these two machines, why doesn't yammie accept that and fix it?
My sled HAS over heated while riding in powder. As has my friends in the same conditions.
And finally, there ARE mountains in Michigan. 6 feet + of snow with 2 to 3 feet of powder and stand up to see conditions.
These machines clearly are under radiated, which was my point about the articats which can idle for a very long time with absolutely no snow going over the cooling plates. They have sufficient cooling surfaces to accomplish the task. So if Yammie designed a machine that must always be in powder moving at 35+ miles per hour, then they should say that in the brochure and or tell the dealer to tell the clients not to buy if you are not always in powder.
Fact is no matter where you go, you got to drive these over marginal conditions and it causes the motors to run hot. Very hot conditions can't be doing these engines any good. Excessive heat will kill the life of the motor.
Somebody said that this motor is far more unique than the articat with 660 cc. engine. Well they both have engine blocks that will and can heat up. Difference is that the cooler on the articat is very large compared to the two little strips running down the running boards that the RX has.
Finally, my point is all sleds have issues. It is fixing those issues that matters. Yammie refuses to accept them, (at least to date) but acknowledges the problem by quickly manufacturering an aftermarket exchanger, but then won't step up to the plate and pay the dealer to fix it.
This is not how articat or polaris do business. As in any business, if you don't make it right after plucking down almost $10k, you are going to loose business. Now question is how much business gets lost? How many people will yammie loose because they aren't helping the dealer fix these issues. Right or wrongly, articat at least so far has stepped up and fixed issues on their newer products. So has polaris, even if it looks like they produce junk, it gets fixed at no cost to the clients who layed the $$ down.
I suspect there are lots of would be buyers who quietly switch and not say anything. As I see it, these issues are not going to bust your wallet, but they are irritating none the less, and indicate that the frame of mind at the top of yammie is to just sell sleds and let the damage take it's toll. For a company that is rolling out new product and new engines, the likelyhood of issues surfacing is very great and a body has to ask himself will he be the next one to take a hit on the head? It might just be that the company will take a hit if these issues don't get corrected soon. I hope they get the message because I believe the direction they are headed with four strokes is the best way to go. But I won't be the one helping them get there because they won't stand back of what they sell.
If everyone has been reading much of what has been reported on this board, then clearly there are lots and lots of "unique" issues which have caused them to run with the hot light on. That by definition means that it is not unique at all, simply tolerated.
Yes both machines came out of and are serviced by the same dealership which sells lots of these machines mostly warriors and the dealer admits that there is a problem. They have seen them first hand, NOT just these two sleds.
It can't be a coincidence that yammer has decided to make add on heat exchangers.
And even if this was unique to these two machines, why doesn't yammie accept that and fix it?
My sled HAS over heated while riding in powder. As has my friends in the same conditions.
And finally, there ARE mountains in Michigan. 6 feet + of snow with 2 to 3 feet of powder and stand up to see conditions.
These machines clearly are under radiated, which was my point about the articats which can idle for a very long time with absolutely no snow going over the cooling plates. They have sufficient cooling surfaces to accomplish the task. So if Yammie designed a machine that must always be in powder moving at 35+ miles per hour, then they should say that in the brochure and or tell the dealer to tell the clients not to buy if you are not always in powder.
Fact is no matter where you go, you got to drive these over marginal conditions and it causes the motors to run hot. Very hot conditions can't be doing these engines any good. Excessive heat will kill the life of the motor.
Somebody said that this motor is far more unique than the articat with 660 cc. engine. Well they both have engine blocks that will and can heat up. Difference is that the cooler on the articat is very large compared to the two little strips running down the running boards that the RX has.
Finally, my point is all sleds have issues. It is fixing those issues that matters. Yammie refuses to accept them, (at least to date) but acknowledges the problem by quickly manufacturering an aftermarket exchanger, but then won't step up to the plate and pay the dealer to fix it.
This is not how articat or polaris do business. As in any business, if you don't make it right after plucking down almost $10k, you are going to loose business. Now question is how much business gets lost? How many people will yammie loose because they aren't helping the dealer fix these issues. Right or wrongly, articat at least so far has stepped up and fixed issues on their newer products. So has polaris, even if it looks like they produce junk, it gets fixed at no cost to the clients who layed the $$ down.
I suspect there are lots of would be buyers who quietly switch and not say anything. As I see it, these issues are not going to bust your wallet, but they are irritating none the less, and indicate that the frame of mind at the top of yammie is to just sell sleds and let the damage take it's toll. For a company that is rolling out new product and new engines, the likelyhood of issues surfacing is very great and a body has to ask himself will he be the next one to take a hit on the head? It might just be that the company will take a hit if these issues don't get corrected soon. I hope they get the message because I believe the direction they are headed with four strokes is the best way to go. But I won't be the one helping them get there because they won't stand back of what they sell.
Mighty
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I fortunately have not had this issue with my RX-1 or Warrior. If I did have the issues you are having my sled would be setting at my dealer right now, not to be picked up until Yamaha installed a rear exchanger at no cost to me.
Silver
Expert
If it over heats in deep powder you have an air bubble or something wrong.I can ride my warrior to the bars all day in deep snow no light comes on.I can ride it all day on a hard packed road no over heat for me.I rode in to Newberry,Mi late this winter from the south no snow left for the last mile and a half it was right down to dirt.Going about 10 mph.It did not over heat.I think the dealer can play a large role in this problem not setting up the sled properly.If your that disappointed with your Yamaha sell it to someone who will be happy with it.
rx1mtn
Expert
I have to agree with smokelees1 about the over heating problem. I too have the RX1 Mountain and live in mid Michigan. I didn't have much of a over heat problem untill I was in the mountains of Wyoming, elv. 8500 ft.
The once it started it happened all the time. Yamaha said they had no reports of the problem and that it must be bubble in the system. Well Ive worked cars, trucks and sleds long enough to know how to get the air out of the cooling systems.
So after 1 full year of riding I added ice scratchers like the people of Mountain Performance recommended. They were right, the engine temp went down 15 degrees.
Then Yamaha came out with a cooler for their non exsisting problem, I also installed that. Now Im happy with my sled, NOT with Yamaha.
I still belive this sled was miss labeled. To me it is NOT a mountain sled. It is a RX1 with a 151 x 2 track.
I know my riding abilaties are not there like the regular moutain riders, but when I can take 600 vertical edge and go thru the step and deep, and my RX1 Mountain has problems submerening thru, I didn't like that.
Would I trade? No, I like the RX1 Mountain, I don't like 121 inch sleds, too short and dont ride as well I belive. Thats why I wish Yamaha made a 144 inch.
If in 03 the Warrior was avalible, THAT is what I would have purchased. Now I can't aford to trade so I will try to do the best I can with what I have.
The once it started it happened all the time. Yamaha said they had no reports of the problem and that it must be bubble in the system. Well Ive worked cars, trucks and sleds long enough to know how to get the air out of the cooling systems.
So after 1 full year of riding I added ice scratchers like the people of Mountain Performance recommended. They were right, the engine temp went down 15 degrees.
Then Yamaha came out with a cooler for their non exsisting problem, I also installed that. Now Im happy with my sled, NOT with Yamaha.
I still belive this sled was miss labeled. To me it is NOT a mountain sled. It is a RX1 with a 151 x 2 track.
I know my riding abilaties are not there like the regular moutain riders, but when I can take 600 vertical edge and go thru the step and deep, and my RX1 Mountain has problems submerening thru, I didn't like that.
Would I trade? No, I like the RX1 Mountain, I don't like 121 inch sleds, too short and dont ride as well I belive. Thats why I wish Yamaha made a 144 inch.
If in 03 the Warrior was avalible, THAT is what I would have purchased. Now I can't aford to trade so I will try to do the best I can with what I have.
RX4fun
Extreme
I have two rx1 mountains and have had the exact same problems with constant overheating as smokeless 1, on both machines.
Finally got the "accessory" rear heat exchangers in early march and have not had the light come on once since then, on either machine. No more melting boots either!
As an example, last weekend my wife and I put on over 50 miles of strictly boondocking and hill climbing, California corn snow conditions with temps in the high 70s all day, zero overheat problems.
Finally got the "accessory" rear heat exchangers in early march and have not had the light come on once since then, on either machine. No more melting boots either!
As an example, last weekend my wife and I put on over 50 miles of strictly boondocking and hill climbing, California corn snow conditions with temps in the high 70s all day, zero overheat problems.
smokeless1
Pro
Then Yamaha came out with a cooler for their non exsisting problem, I also installed that. Now Im happy with my sled, NOT with Yamaha.
This is my point. I like the sled, not the problems I am having and I think that a manufacturer of sleds needs to warrantee issues that are obviously engineering design flaws. Seems that articat does, and so does polaris.
As for me selling my sled. I am not. I said that I spent the money to fix the issues, and I have done just that. I will continue to ride the machine I bought, good bad or indifferently. That doesn't mean I will sell it. Love it or leave it. I could, but that ain't the point. Should be covered by the corporation, and it isn't, so I won't be buying anymore yamahas.
One more thing I discovered regarding the overheat issue. But your going to have to look for it under it's own title because I may have solved something that has plagued many of us with mountains and warriors.
Go read about it "Look what I found out" in the general.
This is my point. I like the sled, not the problems I am having and I think that a manufacturer of sleds needs to warrantee issues that are obviously engineering design flaws. Seems that articat does, and so does polaris.
As for me selling my sled. I am not. I said that I spent the money to fix the issues, and I have done just that. I will continue to ride the machine I bought, good bad or indifferently. That doesn't mean I will sell it. Love it or leave it. I could, but that ain't the point. Should be covered by the corporation, and it isn't, so I won't be buying anymore yamahas.
One more thing I discovered regarding the overheat issue. But your going to have to look for it under it's own title because I may have solved something that has plagued many of us with mountains and warriors.
Go read about it "Look what I found out" in the general.
