crmac33
Veteran
I have a 08 Apex ER with 23T top gear and Bender exhaust(race)...I just ordered a power commander and ulmer air box, i was wondering what top end gains I should see? I do alot of top end racing and any help would be appreciated!!Thanks
viperguy
Extreme
Put the 24t top gear in. My sled likes that gear better for top end running.
Kenny81
Newbie
Can you just buy the power commander and "plug and play"? My sled is stock, so should I be putting one on it? Or is it not practical? I have it in my head its like a chip for a pickup?
Mad Russian
Expert
you wont gain anything with the power commander on a stock apex. its more made for a moded machine so u can tune it. the stock apex is tuned very well already. if you want a good seat of the pants gain get a cluch kit. drag n flys work great. You will love it. BEST MODD I EVER DID. 
CANAM 4 Stroker
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The Ulmer PC is plug and play. The map is set for airbox and exhaust gains to be optimized with additional fuel.
I would agree that if you are top end racing, with lengths greater than 1000', IMO you should go back to the 24T.
The 23T will stand the Apex up and pull hard, but...you can be run down by the 24T on a stock sled.
I would agree that if you are top end racing, with lengths greater than 1000', IMO you should go back to the 24T.
The 23T will stand the Apex up and pull hard, but...you can be run down by the 24T on a stock sled.
KevinS
Expert
I've got the airbox with stock exhaust.
No noticeable gain with a PCV?
No noticeable gain with a PCV?
Grunter
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I have the air box(I gained a good 10mph) even though Ulmer claims 3-5'ish...
Prior airbox speed was 97-98mph GPS on hardpack on lake..after was 107-108mph...
I re-set the computer to 13(but I figure after running it a bit I would need a bit more gas so I figure 14-15 would be the best - I base this on starting it at -20*C or more..10 just doesn't cut it - it backfires when you start and doesn't run well...in summer or warmer weather it's fine - but it's colder where I am)
I had to re-clutch to get this speed mind..cause after the air box I was over-revving big time...so after 6 or so changes to the clutching to make it run at 10,600 from 11,200 - I gained this amount of speed..
I run 22/38 gearing - I get 116mph on GPS(186km/hr)..(on ice)
They say the 23 tooth will get ya up to 122'ish mph...
I personally believe that a stock Apex can't pull the 24 tooth except on a real exceptional day!! So here's what I have to say about gearing...24 is the fastest maybe 1% of the time, 23 tooth fastest 20% of the time and 22 tooth fastest 80% of the time - but more importantly the quickest 100% of the time!(your putting more torque to the track to overcome whatever resistance(snow, deeper snow, and deepest snow) so unless your on glare ice on that perfect day(not to hot or not too cold) and have the least amount friction(and maybe a tail wind) 22 tooth will beat ya all day long and every day! I beat my buddies all the time with their stock geared sleds. They don't have a flippin chance! I beat them on the start, roll-ons and at any speed and top end to boot!
This thing accelerates so hard it gives me cramps!(192 1.375" studs/rip saw)
Now I put the Super Tips in there(from Ulmer) - I like the super tips...they accelerate harder...
My own stock modified clutch set-up is the fastest all the time though - so I would use this for all out top end runs...The Super Tips have helped acceleration(but I lost top speed a bit..) but I have been playing with it and almost match - but don't get the same speed as stock weights..
Personally I like torque big time - and 116mph satisfies my top end savy for the entire winter! I run with the Z1 turbo's in the trail and they admit - that my Apex runs hard..
I know this machine would get 120'ish on a good day - but the amount of days I get 116 compared to the days I would get 120 are not even close..
So for top speed, 23 tooth on a stock Apex would be hard to beat 97% of the time even on ice! - so for those absolutely perfect days(perfect barometric pressure, perfect oxygen, perfect temperature and maybe a slight tail wind - if this is what one really wants/looking for then the 24 tooth might win!)
I love the torque so much I'm considering 21/38 or 22/39...cause I'm not hittin' 116mph every day either(so really on most days an Apex can't pull 116mph on the lake) 21/38 would be good for 107-108mph - but one would get there awfully quick(think about those warmer days when motor torque is lower!) Anyone care to comment on 22/39 or 21/38..(preferably from experience)
Great thread!
Now also considering PCM - interested in more information and personal experiences wit that..
Prior airbox speed was 97-98mph GPS on hardpack on lake..after was 107-108mph...
I re-set the computer to 13(but I figure after running it a bit I would need a bit more gas so I figure 14-15 would be the best - I base this on starting it at -20*C or more..10 just doesn't cut it - it backfires when you start and doesn't run well...in summer or warmer weather it's fine - but it's colder where I am)
I had to re-clutch to get this speed mind..cause after the air box I was over-revving big time...so after 6 or so changes to the clutching to make it run at 10,600 from 11,200 - I gained this amount of speed..
I run 22/38 gearing - I get 116mph on GPS(186km/hr)..(on ice)
They say the 23 tooth will get ya up to 122'ish mph...
I personally believe that a stock Apex can't pull the 24 tooth except on a real exceptional day!! So here's what I have to say about gearing...24 is the fastest maybe 1% of the time, 23 tooth fastest 20% of the time and 22 tooth fastest 80% of the time - but more importantly the quickest 100% of the time!(your putting more torque to the track to overcome whatever resistance(snow, deeper snow, and deepest snow) so unless your on glare ice on that perfect day(not to hot or not too cold) and have the least amount friction(and maybe a tail wind) 22 tooth will beat ya all day long and every day! I beat my buddies all the time with their stock geared sleds. They don't have a flippin chance! I beat them on the start, roll-ons and at any speed and top end to boot!
This thing accelerates so hard it gives me cramps!(192 1.375" studs/rip saw)
Now I put the Super Tips in there(from Ulmer) - I like the super tips...they accelerate harder...
My own stock modified clutch set-up is the fastest all the time though - so I would use this for all out top end runs...The Super Tips have helped acceleration(but I lost top speed a bit..) but I have been playing with it and almost match - but don't get the same speed as stock weights..
Personally I like torque big time - and 116mph satisfies my top end savy for the entire winter! I run with the Z1 turbo's in the trail and they admit - that my Apex runs hard..
I know this machine would get 120'ish on a good day - but the amount of days I get 116 compared to the days I would get 120 are not even close..
So for top speed, 23 tooth on a stock Apex would be hard to beat 97% of the time even on ice! - so for those absolutely perfect days(perfect barometric pressure, perfect oxygen, perfect temperature and maybe a slight tail wind - if this is what one really wants/looking for then the 24 tooth might win!)
I love the torque so much I'm considering 21/38 or 22/39...cause I'm not hittin' 116mph every day either(so really on most days an Apex can't pull 116mph on the lake) 21/38 would be good for 107-108mph - but one would get there awfully quick(think about those warmer days when motor torque is lower!) Anyone care to comment on 22/39 or 21/38..(preferably from experience)
Great thread!
Now also considering PCM - interested in more information and personal experiences wit that..
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