Primary roller bushing

[justinator]

Your story sounds all too familiar. I think we'll all be switching the primary out, when we've had enough.
I'm right behind you. Lol.
I really like the idea of changing out the muffler on the MS16 tune. Sideshowbob tried it. And found it to be quite lean.
So....it's like this, if you could find a way to add fuel to the tune, you could probably make it work. But then power would be down.
After all that I have realized last year. I'd probably go to the pm tunes and a good flowing 3" set up.
In the end, traction seems to be the hardest piece of the puzzle to find, when looking at maximum effort, from the dig.

Idk.... haha

Only muffler that may possibly be safe on ms16 is some of the stock modified mufflers.........not all of them but likely the ones that use an unmodified inlet section mainly because those offer very very minimal gains over stock exhaust. Higher flowing mufflers on sm tune have dangerously lean afrs . I know you know this but the topic still makes me cringe lol

 

[Doc Harley]

 

[Motorhead]

Only muffler that may possibly be safe on ms16 is some of the stock modified mufflers.........not all of them but likely the ones that use an unmodified inlet section mainly because those offer very very minimal gains over stock exhaust. Higher flowing mufflers on sm tune have dangerously lean afrs . I know you know this but the topic still makes me cringe lol

Yes agreed, only safe with Smm that had the stock 2” inlet but had a 3” center and outlet! Did this for many years in both, the MS16 2 bar and the 3 bar tune!

As far as doing the same but with the SQ 2.5”. Without an O2 sensor and an AFR gauge or Data Logging, it’s risky!

I waited for a warm day, knew I had some good 93 octane fuel, and do not have any kind of CAI. I ran it easy, well easy for me, under 100 mph for the first 1/2 hour, then I let it rip time and time again! Realize that my last ride was in Jackman to Pittston Farm and back, so 1/4 -1/2 mile spots only. Not like your area, with it’s super long mile after mile straight aways!
Did not see a knock light until we filled up, and then first turn on, I got my first knock light while getting into the 120 mph area!
Stopped and added some octane booster and never saw another knock light, but wow it was running really good, even at 9300-9400 rpm’s! Didn’t try adding any weight because my stock muffler will go back on next year, and I want to see if I lose those revs again with the stock muffler without changing anything first! And this was a very late year, last ride!

 

[Doc Harley]

Motorhead, just for the record, I didn't say you couldn't do it. Probably shouldn't do it. Especially ripping it into the 120mph range. Lots of additional stress running so lean.
Damn motors are pricey...

 

[STAIN]

They come with their own fiber washers, thinner than stock and black in color.

Sorry, I was thinking of the bronze roller bushings he has. Those come with an installation tool and their own washers.

 

[justinator]

W

Yes agreed, only safe with Smm that had the stock 2” inlet but had a 3” center and outlet! Did this for many years in both, the MS16 2 bar and the 3 bar tune!

As far as doing the same but with the SQ 2.5”. Without an O2 sensor and an AFR gauge or Data Logging, it’s risky!

I waited for a warm day, knew I had some good 93 octane fuel, and do not have any kind of CAI. I ran it easy, well easy for me, under 100 mph for the first 1/2 hour, then I let it rip time and time again! Realize that my last ride was in Jackman to Pittston Farm and back, so 1/4 -1/2 mile spots only. Not like your area, with it’s super long mile after mile straight aways!
Did not see a knock light until we filled up, and then first turn on, I got my first knock light while getting into the 120 mph area!
Stopped and added some octane booster and never saw another knock light, but wow it was running really good, even at 9300-9400 rpm’s! Didn’t try adding any weight because my stock muffler will go back on next year, and I want to see if I lose those revs again with the stock muffler without changing anything first! And this was a very late year, last ride!

Apologies to JT for straying off topic but remember that lean afrs does not necessarily mean instant knock…….it will lead to it quickly. Your octane will determine the resistance to knock. Knock light only comes on when max available timing retard has occured. You may very well have had timing pulled all day but below the threshold for the knock light, datalogging would have been the only way to know for sure.

 

[Motorhead]

W

Apologies to JT for straying off topic but remember that lean afrs does not necessarily mean instant knock…….it will lead to it quickly. Your octane will determine the resistance to knock. Knock light only comes on when max available timing retard has occured. You may very well have had timing pulled all day but below the threshold for the knock light, datalogging would have been the only way to know for sure.

Yes I’ve also heard that same thing from Knapp and others, concerning timing being pulled long before the knock light comes on!

But I had to test the lesser MS16 tune with this SQ2.5”! As you may know, I had some power/low rev issues with an MS17 tune the season prior, and I ran all season with the MS16 sm tune, with better results!

So I told myself, on a warm day, with good fuel and some octane booster on board, in case it of a knock light, I want to try just adding the 2.5” and see if it made more power! And it did, so that test is done!

My riding buddy/ other test sled, did pick up a TD flasher, so after doing nothing but going back to my stock muffler with the MS16 tune, just to see if revs fall back down to where they’ve been all season, is my plan! And then gonna try MS17 again without doing anything else!

If it runs the same as it did with prior MS17 tune, it’ll get a CAI this time to lean it down!

Yeah I know, data logger is where it’s at for sure!

 

[Doc Harley]

I've also seen these on eBay, which are very well priced, but I've never tried them.

Fleecer, got those rollers off eBay. I'll beat them with no forgiveness and see how it goes. Thanx!
BTW....those will be going in first. Lol.

 

[Doc Harley]

Motorhead, I found out the hard way, in regards to muffler flow, boost and overall power.
I ran a muffler I made last year. All three tunes (Eco pm, PT pm, Max17) all felt the same.
Then got a 2.5" straight thru muffler from another member and I could feel things pick up nicely.
Another reason my belief that a 3" straight thru is almost a necessity above 16psi.
Going to try to maximize MS16 or PT PM this next season.
Whichever seems to work the best.

 

[Motorhead]

Fleecer, got those rollers off eBay. I'll beat them with no forgiveness and see how it goes. Thanx!
BTW....those will be going in first. Lol.
View attachment 172690

So what kind of bushing material in these? Gotta say that the stock plastic/ nylon or whatever type material found in the stock rollers, are hard to beat! But first that I have seen of these!

 

[Motorhead]

Motorhead, I found out the hard way, in regards to muffler flow, boost and overall power.
I ran a muffler I made last year. All three tunes (Eco pm, PT pm, Max17) all felt the same.
Then got a 2.5" straight thru muffler from another member and I could feel things pick up nicely.
Another reason my belief that a 3" straight thru is almost a necessity above 16psi.
Going to try to maximize MS16 or PT PM this next season.
Whichever seems to work the best.

Yes and this is what I’ve found, a rich tune may be safe but it takes away power, needs more throttle for moderate speeds and cost more mpg and turns the exhaust side panel very Dark Brown!

A good lean tune just runs better and makes more power for me!

Then there is belt differences. I found two same xs825, one runs at 8400, other at 8750, and a stock 8JP with nothing else done will run at 8850 or so! Yep pretty funny, and I still have that 8400 rpm xs825! Just can’t blow that one for some reason!

 

[74Nitro]

I don't think those SPI rollers will last very long.
That is a case of you get what you pay for.

 

[Doc Harley]

Yes and this is what I’ve found, a rich tune may be safe but it takes away power, needs more throttle for moderate speeds and cost more mpg and turns the exhaust side panel very Dark Brown!

A good lean tune just runs better and makes more power for me!

Then there is belt differences. I found two same xs825, one runs at 8400, other at 8750, and a stock 8JP with nothing else done will run at 8850 or so! Yep pretty funny, and I still have that 8400 rpm xs825! Just can’t blow that one for some reason!

Definitely agree with you on the tunes being too rich. I think TD and others make sure to run them plenty safe. It's just my opinion. but the biggest variables are temps, altitude.
I run around at 15°f and others are in the -30f, same tune. I also believe your assessment of being able to run a PM on a non PM tune while in warmer climate.
Probably best to run a cai for us. I just don't want to block the incoming air to my clutches. Not completely digging the cold air thru the hood deal. I wish they would make something cleaner. Like an air duct?!?!

I don't think those SPI rollers will last very long.
That is a case of you get what you pay for.

Yeah, I understand. I'll give them the old college try at my proving grounds. No miracles expected here.
I've also purchased new bushings to try and have some factory rollers. Trying to save the factory rollers for when the smoke clears.

 

[STAIN]

I don't think those SPI rollers will last very long.
That is a case of you get what you pay for.

I haven't had any luck with SPI clutch parts........

 

[Doc Harley]

So what kind of bushing material in these? Gotta say that the stock plastic/ nylon or whatever type material found in the stock rollers, are hard to beat! But first that I have seen of these!

Bushing Looks very similar to stock. I have a very good feeling they don't have the factory durability.
probably wouldn't load these bushings in the primary without some sort of backup plan.