Question on long track & trail riding

[TheProfessor]

Hi Everyone -

I am looking at a Yamaha Venture TF with the wider skis and longer (151") track. I ride in upstate NY, in a lake effect snow zone that gets 200" of snow per year. We ride trails almost exclusively, and go off trail only on our own property and neighboring properties. 95% of miles on the odometer come from groomed trails, though. Those trails are hard packed with loose snow on top.

I would be riding this sled solo about 80% of the time.

My concerns:

-Is this too much track for trail riding?
-Will I be burning through slides?
-Can I toss this big rig around a bit to have some occasional fun?

I am a 6'1" 230 lb. (without gear) rider if that matters.

Please share your thoughts.

 

[shed]

7800 on my first set of slides
I had the dealer change them when they were changing the motor
didn't need to, they still had 1/8" left at the thinnest spot
I smoked the 2nd set of slides in the first 50 miles
down to 1/8" at the thinnest spot
but I am still using them at 8000 miles later
if I smoke them again, then it is new ones for sure
mostly trail riding
if low snow, I put my foot out, I really should get a set of scratchers

 

[maim]

as long as your skis have enough bite, you should be fine. brother has an 13 rs venture gt and he is after me for apex hooked bars and a bit more rise. he off trailed it for an entire weekend with no problems and his doo buddies where shaking their heads. they are a bit more top heavy than a standard sled but not too bad in my experience.

 

[TheProfessor]

Thanks for the input so far. Hope others have more to add.

How much do these rigs weigh?

 

[4strokeluvr111]

Ummmm....my .02

Does the 151" track have tipped up rails?
What size paddles are on the track?

This sled will weigh in the neighborhood of 700+ lbs.......DON'T GET IT STUCK!
This is not a machine to TOSS AROUND
Run your track loose and run scratchers and slider wear is a non-issue.

A solo rider running a 2-up machine with a 151" track on the twisty's of upstate NY? This sled would be my 3rd to last choice....the last choice being a pure utility sled and the 2nd being a pure mountain sled.

If you and your significant other are running the supertrails of Ontario and Quebec, then this sled would be #1 or #2 on my list.

 

[TheProfessor]

I am starting to agree with you. I have been riding "traditional" sleds for a long time, and am looking for something different. The TF definitely is different. Plus, I sat on one at a sled show and it fit me like a glove. I have not completely given up yet, but the reality is setting in that this may not be the best choice to enter a new segment of snowmobiling with.

 

[4strokeluvr111]

Elaborate on what the new segment of snowmobiling is for you? What do you want the sled to do? As compared to your current GSX?

 

[TheProfessor]

Want it to do what I am basically doing with the GSX now, just a little slower…groomed trails…50% riding through the woods on 10-12 ft wide trails…50% mix of forest/seasonal roads, fields, rail beds, 2-3,000 miles per season. I own 16 acres with trails, like to bomb around there a little bit (not much, maybe 2-3 miles of total riding over a weekend) and neighboring properties. Want to take a passenger as often as they want to go…friend, wife, kids. Not expecting this sled to rip down those wooded trails at 40-50 mph as I sometimes do with light GSX. Actually want to slow down a little bit these days. Not really a new segment, as I said…more a new sled to do the things I have been doing but with more versatility and a different style.

Will still keep GSX and Polaris Fan. The sensible choice is a GSX 900 ACE…but trying to do something different…have had traditional one-up sleds for a decade and a half, want try a new approach.

 

[4strokeluvr111]

Want it to do what I am basically doing with the GSX now, just a little slower…groomed trails…50% riding through the woods on 10-12 ft wide trails…50% mix of forest/seasonal roads, fields, rail beds, 2-3,000 miles per season. I own 16 acres with trails, like to bomb around there a little bit (not much, maybe 2-3 miles of total riding over a weekend) and neighboring properties. Want to take a passenger as often as they want to go…friend, wife, kids. Not expecting this sled to rip down those wooded trails at 40-50 mph as I sometimes do with light GSX. Actually want to slow down a little bit these days. Not really a new segment, as I said…more a new sled to do the things I have been doing but with more versatility and a different style.

Will still keep GSX and Polaris Fan. The sensible choice is a GSX 900 ACE…but trying to do something different…have had traditional one-up sleds for a decade and a half, want try a new approach.

I just looked at the specs for the TF version of the Venture. Yes it does have tipped up rails on the 151" skid which is a good thing for cornering. The bad thing is the TF does not have power steering according to the Yamaha website. I would verify this with your dealer as it's not unusual for the Yamaha site to not have things 100% correct.
The GT version of the Venture DOES have power steering and a 144" skid. Both the TF and GT run a 1.25" Ripsaw track which is fine for trail riding.

To get this size sled to turn well you're going to need a fair amount of ski pressure. If you don't have power steering running the trails you do, I'd guess your arms and shoulders will be tired at the end of the day. Power steering is just AWESOME! I can't understand why Yamaha doesn't offer it on the top 3 models of the Venture.

The Venture will have similar power to the 600 eTech but the power band will feel different. The Venture will have arm stretching low end grunt. Not saying the eTech is weak off the line but IMO the biggest difference you'll feel between the Venture and your GSX is the low end torque on the Venture as well as its engine braking effect.

You can put the +1 seat on a GSX...I assume you already know this. I also assume you have looked at the Doo Grand Touring SE and LE. Downside (IMO) to these sleds is the track is only 137" long.

All great choices! Might boil down to if you want something different than a Doo as well as dealer support. Dealer support is HUGE to me.

Keep us posted on your thoughts and decision!

 

[TheProfessor]

Thanks again for your input. The TF does indeed have power steering. What makes it different than GT is the 151" track and wider skis for off trail use. It also has a bigger bumper and trailer hitch, but those are non-factors. I don't think the TF has tipped rails...it has an articulated track, which hinges up in reverse to prevent burying it in deep snow. It drops back down in forward, but must have some flex to move over bumps, etc. I'm familiar with four stroke power; actually had this engine already in my Vector LTX.

Another difference between GT and TF is the seat. The GT is a tad too short for me. My butt needs to be on the transition piece between driver and passenger to feel comfortable. Otherwise I'm cramped in the cockpit. The TF is a bit more stretched out and as mentioned, fits like a glove when I sit on it. Grand Touring may be better because of the 137" track - probably a better fit for our trails. Got plenty of time to think about it! Keep sharing thoughts!

 

[TheProfessor]

As for +1 seat, yeah, I know about it , but not a good option. One up sleds not meant for two. Suspension can't handle it and it makes for a rough ride. Buddy of mine tried it on his 120" and his GF is tiny - was awful for her. And him!

 

[4strokeluvr111]

Thanks again for your input. The TF does indeed have power steering. What makes it different than GT is the 151" track and wider skis for off trail use. It also has a bigger bumper and trailer hitch, but those are non-factors. I don't think the TF has tipped rails...it has an articulated track, which hinges up in reverse to prevent burying it in deep snow. It drops back down in forward, but must have some flex to move over bumps, etc. I'm familiar with four stroke power; actually had this engine already in my Vector LTX.

Another difference between GT and TF is the seat. The GT is a tad too short for me. My butt needs to be on the transition piece between driver and passenger to feel comfortable. Otherwise I'm cramped in the cockpit. The TF is a bit more stretched out and as mentioned, fits like a glove when I sit on it. Grand Touring may be better because of the 137" track - probably a better fit for our trails. Got plenty of time to think about it! Keep sharing thoughts!

I didn't see the EPS listed on the TF but I very well could have missed it. The TF description says tipped up rails or something to that effect. Again, maybe the Yamaha marketing folks aren't describing it correctly.

I made a bad assumption that the seats on the TF and GT were the same.....my bad! Other than the weight of the sleds and the EPS on the Yamaha, I doubt that you'd feel a lot of difference from a track length standpoint between the TF and the Grand Touring on the trail.

D'oh! - yes you've had the Yamaha 4S experience already! My bad....again!

Good luck in your decision making process! Just thought of this......the windshields on the Ventures are to die for! Uber good wind protection.

 

[mooseflyer]

I debated for awhile last year between a 2013 Venture GT and a Venture TF. As a guesstimate, I (we) ride about 70/30 on /off trail. We ride 2 up about 75% of the time. I'm 5''8" and 185 without gear. Wife is 90 lbs dry. We ride in Michigan's Upper Peninsula. Our riding style is suited to enjoying the ride and the outdoors, not getting from A to B as fast as possible.

When trying to make the decision, the benefits of the GT (to me anyway) included the superior "clicker" suspension which offers better/easier ride control. The benefits of the TF (again, to me), included the longer track, wider skis (2013 model), tow hitch, and split "kick up" skid (which in theory helps with reverse in deeper snow, though I haven't watched it work). I ended up buying the TF and have just over 500 miles on it so far (last season). I didn't have much time to tweak it last season after purchase (those 500 miles came in 5 days), but hope to get it dialed in a bit more next week during my annual trip.

To your concerns (and in my opinion, given I'm a relative novice):
1. The longer track can be compensated for by more carbide and/or deeper keels if you elect for different skis.
2. The slides shouldn't wear any faster than any other Yami.
3. Don't know what you've ridden before, but any 4s 2-up won't be "tossed "around much. I turned over my '06 Venture once (to about 120 degrees), and had to wait for help to flip it back up (while the wife's ankle was pinned under the rail - not fun).

Other thoughts: the suspension on the TF is a bit stiff - if you ride solo most of the time it may be annoying? I have mine set to full soft and it still gives a kick in the pants over the larger whoops. Maybe this will improve over time as the suspension breaks in, but I've read other folks complain about it too. Perhaps Yami wanted to ensure plenty of spring for this "hybrid" trail/utility machine. Dunno.

I'll be riding all of next week so I can post a few more thoughts when I return. I've only really ridden it for a week since new, so I still have a lot of experimenting to do. It took awhile to get my '06 Venture dialed in, so I expect the same with the TF.

Edit - I started writing this reply yesterday, and I see a few others have posted since then. Apologies for any duplicate info.

 

[dave roussel]

I own what you are considering, and use it similar to what you describe. I have 2K on it and are in season #3. Profile is also quite similar.
Observations are in random order.
The extended track works as stated, it is something you won't regularly need, but the one time you need it is where you will need it the most. It really resists burying itself in reverse in deep snows, and will allow you to reverse direction enough in very narrow conditions. A real plus if you ride alone. It will give you a small kick on occasion if the water bar or mogul is deep. You don't notice it enough to register it as a negative. The suspension is stiff to say the least at first. Out of flustration I finally turned all settings to the softest dimensions. Only till then did it start to break in and soften up as the softer settings allowed the suspension to "cycle" and go thru the break in process. I may tighten it up a bit in the future. This seems to be a Yamaha product trait,,I had to do exactly the same thing on my new FJR13.
Don't fight it out with the powder skiis if equipped, put tuners on it w/ 6" carbs. Keep the Pow skiis for a quick switcheroo should conditions warrant. For safety reasons , I had the track studded as Icy decents with the wife on back where we live and ride in NH White Mtns, were just way too risky. This causes the sled to "push" more than I'd like at times, were I to do it again I'd use less than 96 studs . I'll shim the skiis next fall to increase down pressure a bit, that should take care of it. It only exists in ultra cold new snow. Again, it's not significant enough an issue to warrant my attention till next season.
Grease the heck out of the skid and "A" arms as I don't believe they use low temp suspension grease and/or enough of it.
I added Dupont rail inserts and a "Low Snow" wheel kit mounted as far forward as it would go, a set of cable scratchers, and that ended accelerated Hyfax wear for good.
The EPS is outstanding. On occasion I will ride sidesaddle and carry my brush clippers on my lap as I move from whippet to whippet jumping off and cutting the overhanging trail brush. EPS allows me to control the sled at crawling speeds. You would never know it's power steering as the right "feel" is always there no matter what the speed.
Unless you are riding with real animals, you can toss it around enough to stay with the pack. No denying it,,you'll work a bit harder. But the looks you get when winter is throwing the book at you and your tucked in nice and comfy behind the windshield , have a saddle you can move around on, gobbs of storage and lots more available, back up in deep snows, carry a passenger, hang with most sleds in open spaces , and when they stop to look around and see if "granpie" is still there,,,,I'm parked right next to them with my feet up!
Have I seriously considered a Viper 141 with a Jack Seat,,, ?? YES, but then I go thru the list of what I'd give up to what I'd gain and it's a non starter.
Might I purchase a short track "personal" sled in the future?? Possibly,,,,, but the TF is a keeper..
We all have our own wants and needs, hope this helps you.
Ride happy and safe.
Snodancer

 

[crossbowme]

I own what you are considering, and use it similar to what you describe. I have 2K on it and are in season #3. Profile is also quite similar.
Observations are in random order.
The extended track works as stated, it is something you won't regularly need, but the one time you need it is where you will need it the most. It really resists burying itself in reverse in deep snows, and will allow you to reverse direction enough in very narrow conditions. A real plus if you ride alone. It will give you a small kick on occasion if the water bar or mogul is deep. You don't notice it enough to register it as a negative. The suspension is stiff to say the least at first. Out of flustration I finally turned all settings to the softest dimensions. Only till then did it start to break in and soften up as the softer settings allowed the suspension to "cycle" and go thru the break in process. I may tighten it up a bit in the future. This seems to be a Yamaha product trait,,I had to do exactly the same thing on my new FJR13.
Don't fight it out with the powder skiis if equipped, put tuners on it w/ 6" carbs. Keep the Pow skiis for a quick switcheroo should conditions warrant. For safety reasons , I had the track studded as Icy decents with the wife on back where we live and ride in NH White Mtns, were just way too risky. This causes the sled to "push" more than I'd like at times, were I to do it again I'd use less than 96 studs . I'll shim the skiis next fall to increase down pressure a bit, that should take care of it. It only exists in ultra cold new snow. Again, it's not significant enough an issue to warrant my attention till next season.
Grease the heck out of the skid and "A" arms as I don't believe they use low temp suspension grease and/or enough of it.
I added Dupont rail inserts and a "Low Snow" wheel kit mounted as far forward as it would go, a set of cable scratchers, and that ended accelerated Hyfax wear for good.
The EPS is outstanding. On occasion I will ride sidesaddle and carry my brush clippers on my lap as I move from whippet to whippet jumping off and cutting the overhanging trail brush. EPS allows me to control the sled at crawling speeds. You would never know it's power steering as the right "feel" is always there no matter what the speed.
Unless you are riding with real animals, you can toss it around enough to stay with the pack. No denying it,,you'll work a bit harder. But the looks you get when winter is throwing the book at you and your tucked in nice and comfy behind the windshield , have a saddle you can move around on, gobbs of storage and lots more available, back up in deep snows, carry a passenger, hang with most sleds in open spaces , and when they stop to look around and see if "granpie" is still there,,,,I'm parked right next to them with my feet up!
Have I seriously considered a Viper 141 with a Jack Seat,,, ?? YES, but then I go thru the list of what I'd give up to what I'd gain and it's a non starter.
Might I purchase a short track "personal" sled in the future?? Possibly,,,,, but the TF is a keeper..
We all have our own wants and needs, hope this helps you.
Ride happy and safe.
Snodancer

I have found the TF to be excellent on the trail. EPS works great and I wouldn't want to give it up. However, I like to go off trail and I have found the front end dives in deep snow and is prone to getting stuck. I have order some skins for it and hopefully that will help. I routinely ride with a crowd that have hi performance sleds. In general, I keep up with them.