BA APEX
Expert
BA APEX: is that mono picture from an 05??? looks like it might be since I have the 06 rails now and they look different. I am going to print your pic and head out and peek.
Got home yeasterday from a trip with 700 miles on a brand new 06 skid (both rails, W arm under warranty)brand new track (NOT warranty) brand new fat boy spring (not warranty but had to put it on for Yami to pay for the new skid and I am only 170 pounds)
I already have the rub marks/holes starting to ruin the new track. I have quite a bit of clearance between the shock and the track when it's in the air and unloaded. I think it's from the track running loose. I know it has stretched a bit because it's a new track. It has about 2.5" of sag with the 22 lbs on it so I can tighten it but I still think there is a problem.
Now here is the really good news. FOUR...yes FOUR cracks in the 06 rails. Cracked at all 4 holes in front and behind the stop bumper on the rails. I wish I could see an 05 skid to see the difference. I don't remember these holes (about 3/8" with nothing in them) on the 05 skid.
My 05 rails cracked where there were no holes if I remember right. This seems to be a whole new issue.
Anyone have a good side view pic of their 05 rail they can send me? Also the W arm if you have it. I want to see the difference since I really do not remember what the old rails looked like.
Yamaha got a call first thing this morning so I could document it directly with them under my VIN # since they know I just picked it up from the dealer last week. I think I may be done with this skid. If thery are not willing to put the pro active skid in it then I'll have them put another set of rails in and up for sale it goes. I am NOT going to be going to the dealer every 1000 miles for new rails. Sled is under warranty until 08 but that don't mean crap if the skid is JUNK!
This mono is a POS! I would like to put the pro active in it. Even my dealer agrees that tha pro active is the best skid they are building right now.
Got home yeasterday from a trip with 700 miles on a brand new 06 skid (both rails, W arm under warranty)brand new track (NOT warranty) brand new fat boy spring (not warranty but had to put it on for Yami to pay for the new skid and I am only 170 pounds)
I already have the rub marks/holes starting to ruin the new track. I have quite a bit of clearance between the shock and the track when it's in the air and unloaded. I think it's from the track running loose. I know it has stretched a bit because it's a new track. It has about 2.5" of sag with the 22 lbs on it so I can tighten it but I still think there is a problem.
Now here is the really good news. FOUR...yes FOUR cracks in the 06 rails. Cracked at all 4 holes in front and behind the stop bumper on the rails. I wish I could see an 05 skid to see the difference. I don't remember these holes (about 3/8" with nothing in them) on the 05 skid.
My 05 rails cracked where there were no holes if I remember right. This seems to be a whole new issue.
Anyone have a good side view pic of their 05 rail they can send me? Also the W arm if you have it. I want to see the difference since I really do not remember what the old rails looked like.
Yamaha got a call first thing this morning so I could document it directly with them under my VIN # since they know I just picked it up from the dealer last week. I think I may be done with this skid. If thery are not willing to put the pro active skid in it then I'll have them put another set of rails in and up for sale it goes. I am NOT going to be going to the dealer every 1000 miles for new rails. Sled is under warranty until 08 but that don't mean crap if the skid is JUNK!
This mono is a POS! I would like to put the pro active in it. Even my dealer agrees that tha pro active is the best skid they are building right now.
ReX
TY 4 Stroke God
Hey Snowdog - The skid picture above looks like a complete 06 skid to me (except for the 05 front bump stops). Those are definitely 06 rails. The rails they installed on your sled are probably new 05 rails. The part number has not been superseeded.
I was told the same thing - that I would be getting 06 rails. Last season Yamaha refused to repair my sled in February because "they wouldn't install the weaker 05 rails when the 06 rails were stronger". My sled was down almost 9 months waiting for the new rails and only functional about 3 months of the 12 month warranty. Annoyingly they installed the weaker 05 rails in the end.
The 05 rails with the reinforcement kit have a tendency to crack where the holes for the bolts are drilled. Mine cracked early this season and the cracks didn't grow past the bolts over the next 9500 kms. I'm not saying it's right, but that's the scoop on my sled.
My 06 pivot arms, front and rear, did crack too (after around 6000 kms). At that time the cracks were small and I chose to reinforce the arms by boxing them in partially. Now at 9500 kms this season, I found another small crack starting in the front arm and will probably fully box it in (If I ever get my engine fixed after a connecting rod nut came loose and fell off. My near mint condition sled (not a scratch or dent - actually one minor scratch on the gas tank cover from a zipper) might be going to the scrap yard because Yamaha wants $10,000 - $12,000 to fix it.).
I did carefully measure the 06 and 05 rails side by side and all of the mounting points and pivot locations are identical. I can't see any reason that the 06 rails can't be bolted on and they are considerably beefed up compared to the 05 rails.
I want a pro active CK in mine also, but I don't see that happening without an impossible fight.
As far as the shock rubbing the track; to me that's a minor problem compared to all of the other problems I've had with my sled (still not acceptable though). In 05 my track was taken out by a front pivot arm failure (Yamaha didn't cover the track) at about 9500 kms and the track wasn't showing any structural affects by the shock wear. The shock on the other hand was almost worn through.
This season (with a new track) after 9500 kms the track is holding up extremely well. There are no significant holes (none to the chords) on the inside from the shock rubbing and again no structural problems with it.
The shock also is holding up well compared to last year and is only about 1/2 way worn through. Since the wear rate slows as the shock wears down I suspect the shock will last at least 30,000 kms in total. It would probably need replacing before then due to internal wear.
One thing I did differently that might have helped the shock wear this season is I installed a 4th wheel kit (as well as 144 studs, including down the center, which would probably make the wear worse). My thinking is since the track is supported better the cross bars don't weaken as much. This probably keeps the track away from the shock better as the miles add up and the cross bars weaken.
I was told the same thing - that I would be getting 06 rails. Last season Yamaha refused to repair my sled in February because "they wouldn't install the weaker 05 rails when the 06 rails were stronger". My sled was down almost 9 months waiting for the new rails and only functional about 3 months of the 12 month warranty. Annoyingly they installed the weaker 05 rails in the end.
The 05 rails with the reinforcement kit have a tendency to crack where the holes for the bolts are drilled. Mine cracked early this season and the cracks didn't grow past the bolts over the next 9500 kms. I'm not saying it's right, but that's the scoop on my sled.
My 06 pivot arms, front and rear, did crack too (after around 6000 kms). At that time the cracks were small and I chose to reinforce the arms by boxing them in partially. Now at 9500 kms this season, I found another small crack starting in the front arm and will probably fully box it in (If I ever get my engine fixed after a connecting rod nut came loose and fell off. My near mint condition sled (not a scratch or dent - actually one minor scratch on the gas tank cover from a zipper) might be going to the scrap yard because Yamaha wants $10,000 - $12,000 to fix it.).
I did carefully measure the 06 and 05 rails side by side and all of the mounting points and pivot locations are identical. I can't see any reason that the 06 rails can't be bolted on and they are considerably beefed up compared to the 05 rails.
I want a pro active CK in mine also, but I don't see that happening without an impossible fight.
As far as the shock rubbing the track; to me that's a minor problem compared to all of the other problems I've had with my sled (still not acceptable though). In 05 my track was taken out by a front pivot arm failure (Yamaha didn't cover the track) at about 9500 kms and the track wasn't showing any structural affects by the shock wear. The shock on the other hand was almost worn through.
This season (with a new track) after 9500 kms the track is holding up extremely well. There are no significant holes (none to the chords) on the inside from the shock rubbing and again no structural problems with it.
The shock also is holding up well compared to last year and is only about 1/2 way worn through. Since the wear rate slows as the shock wears down I suspect the shock will last at least 30,000 kms in total. It would probably need replacing before then due to internal wear.
One thing I did differently that might have helped the shock wear this season is I installed a 4th wheel kit (as well as 144 studs, including down the center, which would probably make the wear worse). My thinking is since the track is supported better the cross bars don't weaken as much. This probably keeps the track away from the shock better as the miles add up and the cross bars weaken.
Snowdog, if I read your posts correctly, I think I know why your new rails cracked so quickly and it's not the suspension's fault. It sounds like the dealer never added the '06 reinforcement plates when he replaced your rails.
Do you have two plates bolted to each side of each rail near the rear bump stop where these cracks are? Since you mention you can see the holes in the rails it sounds like (and I am assuming here) there are no reinforcement plates installed.
If that's the case, I am guessing two things happened:
1. The dlr installed '06 rails which come pre-drilled with holes for the reinforcement plates and...
2. The dlr didn't install the reinforcement plates.
Just my guess. But if those rails have holes and no plates that's your problem. Make sure the dealer adds the reinforcement plates this time. They're available in a kit from Yamaha so he doesn't have to look up and order all the individual parts (plates, bolts, nuts, rivets, etc). If he doesn't know about the kit ask him to call Yamaha.
If the reinforcement plates are already there then my guess is wrong and you have a different issue.
Do you have two plates bolted to each side of each rail near the rear bump stop where these cracks are? Since you mention you can see the holes in the rails it sounds like (and I am assuming here) there are no reinforcement plates installed.
If that's the case, I am guessing two things happened:
1. The dlr installed '06 rails which come pre-drilled with holes for the reinforcement plates and...
2. The dlr didn't install the reinforcement plates.
Just my guess. But if those rails have holes and no plates that's your problem. Make sure the dealer adds the reinforcement plates this time. They're available in a kit from Yamaha so he doesn't have to look up and order all the individual parts (plates, bolts, nuts, rivets, etc). If he doesn't know about the kit ask him to call Yamaha.
If the reinforcement plates are already there then my guess is wrong and you have a different issue.
ReX said:
So rex,
How can I tell if I have the 05 or 06 rails installed? Dealer said they were the new 06 style and they have more material in them. Now that I don't have the 05's in front of me I don't know. I did print the picture and took it out to the sled. The rails in the picture look like the rails on the sled now. Are the holes in front of and behind the bumper the holes for the kit? if so, why are they on the 06 rails if they are beefed up? This is where they have cracked. All 4 holes have a crack going to the top of the rail already and 2 of them the crack extends down past the hole twards the hyfax. one is even showing signs of buckling at the crack.
I would post pics but I don't have my camera here. I will later this week though. Anyhow, I don't know where to go with this thing. Not to happy with the dealer I had it at and the only dealer I really like is where I ride and where I bought the sled in the UP. (Meyers Yamaha in Ishpeming Michigan) but that is 6.5 hours away. Thinking of taking it up there and letting him have it for the summer or until it's done. Greg Meyer has to be one of te best guys I have met in the sport. Not only a really great guy, but INCREDIBLE customer service as well. When I was up there this last weekend on the trails, ALL 3 PUCKS and TOWERS sheered off my secondary, destroying my helix and the outter sheeve. Never seen that happen in my life!
Within one hour he had a guy there with a used clutch right on the trails. I was 160 miles from my cabin. The guy is fantastic.
Now I have to get the one sheeve replaced and had to order another helix off Jeff at CPR.
Really getting frusterated here...
type787x said:
Well now that I just saw your post...you hit the nail right on the head. There are holes in them but no...there are no plates. I swear this dealer has their head so far up their A$$ it's not even funny. Got to make a call I guess...thanks type 787x
Snowdog, the only diff betwen the '05 and '06 rails are the holes for the reinforcement plates. The additional strength comes when the plates are bolted on. With no plates those holes actually makes the '06 rails weaker and more prone to breaking (like yours).
As I said above, it sure sounds like you got '06 rails with holes and did not get the plates!
As I said above, it sure sounds like you got '06 rails with holes and did not get the plates!
ReX
TY 4 Stroke God
Wow... How did they forget the reinforcement kit?
Another point of interest to me - why did they install the 06 rails on your sled? My dealer insists that Yamaha will not approve the installation of 06 rails on an 05 sled. The only way I can get the stronger 06 rails is to pay full price for them.
Here is a link to a thread with lots of suspension pictures, including 05 and 06 rails with reinforcement kits installed. You can see the difference between the 05 and 06 rails. The 06 rails are quite a bit stronger.
http://www.ty4stroke.com/viewtopic.php?t=25559
Another point of interest to me - why did they install the 06 rails on your sled? My dealer insists that Yamaha will not approve the installation of 06 rails on an 05 sled. The only way I can get the stronger 06 rails is to pay full price for them.
Here is a link to a thread with lots of suspension pictures, including 05 and 06 rails with reinforcement kits installed. You can see the difference between the 05 and 06 rails. The 06 rails are quite a bit stronger.
http://www.ty4stroke.com/viewtopic.php?t=25559
Rex,
They said it was some sort of "special favor" or some crap like that. I can't remember what they called it...maybe somethign like a good will warranty or something. He told me they were only honoring the warranty because he had such a good relation with Yamaha...blah blah blah...and normally they would not warranty this. I thought to my self..."yeah... whatever dude...just fix the damn thing"
I told him just get me the 06 rails and arm and I will be happy. I would assume they would have gotten the kit as well. Why they did not put it on is beyond me. I just thought the 06 rails were stronger and the 05's had to have the kit installed on them. I was not aware the 06's were pre drilled for the kit. It makes sense looking at the skid now after seeing your pics in the other thread. So the reinforcement blocks go on the inside of the rails???
They said it was some sort of "special favor" or some crap like that. I can't remember what they called it...maybe somethign like a good will warranty or something. He told me they were only honoring the warranty because he had such a good relation with Yamaha...blah blah blah...and normally they would not warranty this. I thought to my self..."yeah... whatever dude...just fix the damn thing"
I told him just get me the 06 rails and arm and I will be happy. I would assume they would have gotten the kit as well. Why they did not put it on is beyond me. I just thought the 06 rails were stronger and the 05's had to have the kit installed on them. I was not aware the 06's were pre drilled for the kit. It makes sense looking at the skid now after seeing your pics in the other thread. So the reinforcement blocks go on the inside of the rails???
ReX
TY 4 Stroke God
Inside and outside.
oh...I see the outside ones now. Those are pretty big brackets!
