Starter Failure

[Vmaxkid]

I'm still curious as to why Yamaha changed the starter relay on the 2011 and up Nytros. Does anyone have a picture of one from a 2011-2013? I am curious if it looks different or is now weatherproof...

 

[jeremy377]

Bought a 2013 xtx this last weekend. Took a quick ride Friday night and left it outside in the -20 temps. Starter relay was replaced the next morning because it wouldn't start. Good thing I left it parked at the dealer which made for a quick fix.

 

[Rockmeister]

Would it makes sense for those of us who have not experienced the problem, just change the relay to a new and fresh one?

That isn't a bad idea!
It is usually the older ones that fail.

However, the cause can also be in the Key Switch.
Have seen it many times where the relay & the starter were replaced & they both smoked again rather quickly, due to a bad switch.
If the cause is in the switch, replacing everything else without replacing the switch, or at least KNOWING it is good or bad, just costs money.

Rock

 

[Dimebag]

After learning the hard way Im gonna install a battery kill switch…

For those of you who havent got a starter saver yet - Get one! Before its too late..

 

[Beenba]

This scares the crap out of me, so I just wired in a led last night. Basically the same thing rock sells. Cheap insurance!

 

[Vmaxkid]

Apparently it isn't limited to older models when Jeremy377 buys a 2013 last weekend and already needed to replace the starter relay.
This is not isolated. Yamaha will never admit to this problem I am sure but has anybody here who has had to spend $$$ in repairs from this thought about action against them?
I am not one to throw around litigation but it appears this is happening frequently especially in cold weather. If it were just the relay I wouldn't make a big deal of it. But when the relay is the cause of your starter frying and you spend almost a grand replacing it of which two thirds of the cose is labor due to poor access to the starter they should own up...
I could understand if my starter died due to age and I had to replace it. Let's say I turned the key that morning the sled started but at that same moment the starter died of old age... then I wouldn't know that until I stopped and shut the machine down then tried to start it again. But that wasn't the case and the fact that I was riding the sled and it shut down on me while riding it confirms this.

 

[fxnytro1050]

I emailed yamaha about the starter and this is what they had to say

Good morning:

I am sorry to hear of your disappointment. I show the warranty expired over three years ago and there are no outstanding recalls on this unit. It is very unlikely your dealer would be able to provide evidence of a manufacturing defect when the part's inspected (this is required within the warranty period and imperative this many years outside of warranty).

Regards,

Scott

PS     This is from a forum on-line explaining the typical reasons for failure:


Starter failure is typically rare, but it does happen. not model nor brand specific failure, usually usage and maintenance. more often than not its the battery, fuses or the relay, but all involved components are easily tested.

 

[Rockmeister]

Apparently it isn't limited to older models when Jeremy377 buys a 2013 last weekend and already needed to replace the starter relay.
This is not isolated. Yamaha will never admit to this problem I am sure but has anybody here who has had to spend $$$ in repairs from this thought about action against them?
I am not one to throw around litigation but it appears this is happening frequently especially in cold weather. If it were just the relay I wouldn't make a big deal of it. But when the relay is the cause of your starter frying and you spend almost a grand replacing it of which two thirds of the cose is labor due to poor access to the starter they should own up...
I could understand if my starter died due to age and I had to replace it. Let's say I turned the key that morning the sled started but at that same moment the starter died of old age... then I wouldn't know that until I stopped and shut the machine down then tried to start it again. But that wasn't the case and the fact that I was riding the sled and it shut down on me while riding it confirms this.

The 2 causes of failure can be totally different.

Infant mortality is when the product fails early in it's life due to a manufacturing defect of some kind.
(This is what happened with Jeremy377)
No manufacture wants this, but it happens. This is why most everything comes with a warranty, to cover infant mortality.
Once a product makes it past the infant mortality stage & works, it will usually perform as expected for many years to come.
Then the major cause of failures becomes abuse, lack of care, or in most cases, simply age.

In the case of the starter relay and/or keyswitch, one would hope that it would fail in the open mode & not take the starter out with it.
However, relays & switches fail with the contacts closed(and open) everyday, all over the world.
Definitely NOT isolated, it happens all the time.
It is the nature of the beast unfortunately.
Everything will fail, especially if it is man made.

The switch & relay contact life/failure, etc are controlled by physics, no manufacturer can change that.
They can only do their best to make it work as long as possible in the conditions it is used for.

We even looked at making a kit to try to try to prevent this from happening, unfortunately we ran into the same brick wall of physics the manufacturer did.
So the most cost effective end result was warning you of an issue, so you possibly could do something about it before it caused serious damage.

Hope this helps!

Rock

 

[Vmaxkid]

But let's say the starter and wiring got so hot like Dimebags in which it started melting the positive wires... take that one step further and the entire sled caught fire and was a total. Your insurance company hires an expert who determines the fire was caused by the faulty starter relay. They pay you and subrogate Yamaha for the damages due to their faulty relay destroying your property. How is that different than us going after them for the faulty relay causing the starter to burn up?

 

[fxnytro1050]

is there a way you could wire in a in line fuse to the wire that goes to the starter. one that would blow when prolonged current going through it?

 

[kopenytro]

Starter

Hey Guys,
just came across this thread after taking my Nytro out for a shake down run this afternoon.
So here's the backstory,
I installed a home made turbo kit on my 08 RTX over the summer.
We did the original shake down run on it 3 weeks ago without issue.

2 weeks ago I ran it on my club ride and made it to the first stop (14 miles) without issue.
Went out 30 minutes later to start it and everything lit up but the starter just went tick, tick, tick.
Dealer tested everything and determined starter was fried. So replaced starter and battery.

I have the day off, so I decide to take it out again and try to fine tune a few things.

About 8 miles up the trail I notice the following:
1. sled is running great, no issues and not running hot (gauge reading 155).
2. my tru boost gauge goes from 6psi to suddenly being stuck on 8 which is the boost setting that triggers the alarm mode.
3. my yellow check light is on and the engine icon is visible on the display. However I don't recall seeing any codes.
4. AFR readings are between 11.8-12.8 at mid to upper throttle.

So I pull over and everything sounds and runs ok but I still turn off the sled to be safe.
When I try to start it I get same thing as before. Everything lights up, fuel pump relay works, but starter goes tick, tick, tick.

Thinking I need to start with replacing the original starter relay, switch and hopefully not have to replace my second starter in two weeks.

Thoughts?

 

[Beenba]

Jump the starter terminals with needle nose plyers (the two heavy gauge wires) and see if it cranks (you can have the sled OFF when doing this). If it cranks your starter is fine, and you have wiring problems elsewhere.

 

[kopenytro]

Starter

Thanks. Tried that and the starter just ticks.
More worried why I'm wrecking starters than actually replacing it right now.

Kope

 

[Beenba]

Yea that's definitely odd. When you jump it is it like a constant on/off clicking, or does it just click once, and then when you un-jump it, it clicks, jump it again it clicks, etc etc.

Also, I would trace the wire going to the starter and the wire coming from the battery to the solenoid. Make sure they are tight and the nuts haven't wiggled loose. Its a long shot but may as well check the easy stuff first.

 

[kopenytro]

It ticks a few times then it changes into kinda a winding down type sound.
Thx for the tip, I'll check the wire and leads tomorrow.