Starting issues in -30 C

[WinderFab]

My 2011 apex has given me problems starting this season,

Few weeks ago in Quebec -27 C overnight, went to start with no luck just slight puffs of smoke coming out of the exhaust, ran the hairdryer from the hotel room blowing heat under the light pod for about an hour also a booster pack hooked up to the jumper cables and she finally fired up.

I just got back from northern Ontario, 4 day trip, Wednesday Thursday and Friday mornings were around -20C no problem starting, Saturday morning was -30c went to fire up the sled, started for 2 seconds and died, next half hour or so only puffs of smoke out the exhaust but wouldn’t fire, I hooked up the booster pack up again to the jumper leads and while playing with + or - 1/2 throttle she finally fired up.

I put a new 20 series AGM battery this fall, besides these two mornings sled starts fine.

Has anyone figured out why ?

 

[Stubbs]

It’s an 11+ Apex. Lol
I found mine started a little better after I added the PCV with Ulmer’s mapping. He means things out for start up. I have an in-line cooling heater, and find it starts a little funky when plugged in if super cold temps, but it always starts.

 

[WinderFab]

So the answer to the fix is it’s a 11+ Apex.. lol..

Do you leave the in line heater plug in all night?

 

[Stubbs]

Sorry man, I had several ‘06 Apex sleds that didn’t start awesome in the cold, and my ‘11 is even worse. Typically I plug mine in sometime before bed and let it cook all night. If you reach in under the hood the t-stat and the head feel nice and warm, but it still starts a little funky in the morning. I wish I had the answer.

 

[WinderFab]

No worries I was just kidding..

Thinking maybe I should pick up a in line heater, it can’t hurt.

I see we are close, we should go for a ride sometime.

 

[sideshowBob]

IMO
The Apexs seem to flood on a cold start when it gets below -20c, what I did with my Attak is add a toggle switch to my fuel pump. When its very cold I start with my fuel pump switched off, crank the engine until it is spinning freely, then I turn the fuel pump on and just keep cranking until it starts and running clean. Using this technique also simplifies any starting issues as you know the engine is always in need of fuel and is not flooded.
I also shut the engine off at the end of the day by turning the fuel pump off until it quits and then turn the key off. This is a technique that has been used on piston aircraft for decades.
Works for me.

 

[Stubbs]

No worries I was just kidding..

Thinking maybe I should pick up a in line heater, it can’t hurt.

I see we are close, we should go for a ride sometime.

Let’s keep in touch and get together for a ride sometime. I grew up in the Almaguin area, and my parents are still there, so that’s the area I ride in the most.

 

[Winderallday!]

I think the in line coolant heater heats coolant up around the temp sensor and the ecu thinks the sled is actually running that temp, and maybe alters the fuel map accordingly, this could explain why it runs "funky" as Stubby has mentioned.
Had two buds Apex' in New Liskeard this past weekend do the same thing, hair dryers and boosters for couple hours, one guy eventually put a hot hands pack on his bank of relays and then it fired up after a while.
On my 11 and 15 Apes, in doubtful starting weather I would not wait for the fuel pump to cycle and always held the key in the start position for a few seconds longer even after it sounded like it was running, if you let go of the starter too soon it stalls, then refuses to re-start.
I think sideshowBob's idea to switch the power to the fuel pump is a great, need to get the engine loosened up and rolling well to create a little bit of heat and not be constantly injecting fuel loading up the system, possibly fouling plugs.
Cheers

 

[WinderFab]

sideshowbob do you mind sharing where you wired the switch on the fuel pump?
Thanks

 

[sideshowBob]

sideshowbob do you mind sharing where you wired the switch on the fuel pump?
Thanks

I broke the ground wire in the wiring harness just short of where it connects to the fuel pump right at the tank. I then extended the wires on both, now open, ends up to a switch I installed in front of the handle bars. Its a simple interrupter switch ON/OFF. I soldered and heat shrunk all connections. This has been working good for me for years...pretty simple.
When starting the sled, when its very cold, I find after cranking it over a bit, then turning the fuel pump switch on, some times I still have to cycle the switch off at times to keep it running as the sled is running so rich for the first 30 sec or so it wants to quit...its like playing with a manual choke or mixture cutoff.

 

[WinderFab]

Great thanks

 

[maim]

well from experiances with my 2011 xtx over the years starting at -25 and colder, always park with over 1/2 a tank as it helps get the injectors enough pressure to fire (learned at -30c the hard way), if you can turn the primary at least a full rotation to remove frost from in cylinders with no access to a boost for faster engine cranking/easyer start and do not let go of the key when it coughs at -30, only let go of the key once it is running on all 4 (when started like this i let it run until the overheat light is ready to come on or no snow on the coolers/running boards at all). 0 w 40 synthetic oil helps a bunch too. old girl has 13000 miles on it and still running strong.

 

[oldguy2]

This is going to sound crazy, but a buddy of mine who used to own an '06 Apex told me his dealer told him to block the exhaust with his hand. This gives the engine back pressure which helps it to start. haven't had to try it yet though.

 

[PAvector]

My friend has a 2011 XTX and had starting issues in Quebec colder than -15F. In 2012 he contacted a old friend in Yamaha and found out that there was updated mapping available for Canada dealers but not for US dealers. I see your in Ontario (Fabio), so I would push your dealer for the update. My friend didn’t want to ship his ECM to corp Yamaha, US dealers weren’t allowed to have the map. Had to do with the two divisions and maybe licensing. It my understanding that the updated map was included in 2013 and up models.He currently uses a 100watt heater on the outside of the oil tank. Some times torching the thermostat also helps to cheat the water temp sensor. The map is too rich at very cold temperatures IMO.

 

[YukonMP]

Keep in mind that the available cranking power of the battery is only 64percent at -20C and 50percent at -30C. Having a battery heater/blanket makes a big difference. Otherwise go with a booster pack right from the start. This is no fault of the sled, it is just the way it is.

It is no longer so common up here but not that long ago crews would have to drain the oil and remove the batteries of all the machines or else they couldn't anything to start in the morning.