Tapp Roller Spider

[fatchance]

Justin you're making me second guess the washer weight on the 24' TAPP, but my notes say 1.2g each.

I know this to be fact with the older TAPP because i pulled the TAPP from the 17' to put on the 25' and weighed everything again and definitively the washers were 1.2g each

 

[See n blue]

Going to try a few different helix’s as well.

 

[justinator]

Justin you're making me second guess the washer weight on the 24' TAPP, but my notes say 1.2g each.

I know this to be fact with the older TAPP because i pulled the TAPP from the 17' to put on the 25' and weighed everything again and definitively the washers were 1.2g each

2.2 grams each. Washers are .072 thick and .600 in diameter. I have a dalton 65 adapt weight on scale for reference to accuracy.

 

[KnappAttack]

Obviously they have changed suppliers for the washers and they are a gram heavier than they were. Even their instructions state the washers are 1.2G so they will need to change that. Doesn't effect much other than people trying get setup help from others. So you can throw washer count out the window I guess.

Also this seems to show that there is no gain to be had running a roller spider over a button spider when having to run the same weight or even more weight in the roller spider. I didn't figure their would be as I have been down this road already when running the AAEN Comet primary vs the old Std. Comet primary years ago, and the AAEN even had real ball bearings in the roller spider which would be even less friction than just a roller on a pin. The button spider is also quieter for trail use then the roller spider also.





From their online tuning guide.

The TAPP Clutch includes a Roller Bolt Weight Kit with the following parts: Roller Bolts: 1 ½” = 5.8 grams 1 ¾” = 6.8 grams 2” = 7.5 grams Washers: Regular = 1.2 grams

 

[See n blue]

One would think the roller is more efficient given its nature. I agree with you on it being louder threw me off.

 

[KnappAttack]

One would think the roller is more efficient given its nature. I agree with you on it being louder threw me off.

Yes, you would think that. That’s why I had to try a roller primary myself to see, I went so far as to put roller bearings in the weight rollers, if for nothing else just to help with reaction time. It may have helped slightly for reaction but did nothing for performance on the ET or speed. As you can imagine, I had to try everything at least once, and I had to try it for myself. Keep in mind on the race sleds I would log with a Racepak computer so we could see things down to the thousandths of a second and log all the data being presented.

The secondary on the other hand is a completely different story, rollers there is a help in back shifting on a trail sled or any machine that accelerates and decelerates adding consistency, but for all out drag racing performance where only acceleration is needed, there is also nothing to be gained with a roller even in the secondary, buttons work there just as well maybe better as you can get by with less spring pressure on the buttons.

 

[See n blue]

Very interesting info, thanks for sharing. I have to be one to try myself just to see the difference.
I’m going to try 2mm rollers across from eachother to start. My sled works well but I know there’s more in it. Going to try a 46/40 with cat green. Should increase acceleration on the hit over the 42.

 

[max rolph]

2 washers per arm, blk spring, 1mm rollers, clicker 3, straight 42 helix with cat green spring 3rd hole (stm) Running an xs825 belt.
Rpm’s spike on the hit, so I’ve tried adding set screws to slow the shift but it seems slower.
Tapp said I would need less weight with the roller but am finding it needs more weight in the mid and less in the tip. I’d like to see 8800 and creep to 9000.
Ran the button spider in my previous sled and it was bang on with the same secondary set up.

on mine withn same tune... on what ron wards suggested...wrks great.... shorth bolt no washers +2 roller with stm 46/36 helix in STM green snow prow 3rd hole and clicker on 3, mine comes out 88-8900 and pulls to 9050-9100 button spider . now i havent tryed the steeper helix with the draggie to see if any acceleration different,,,, and i was originally hesitant to put the +2 rollers in but it worked out to be same weight as the +1 with medium bolt and 2 washers, soo when Ron said thats what he runs and races with, i switched out and it was BANG on 88 -8900 rising to 9050-9100... also ... try XS811 belt with tapp and stm, Ron said it is needed when he tested on the dyno as the stock length belts tend to be stressed at wide open long pulls with the larger diameter tapp

 

[KnappAttack]

on mine withn same tune... on what ron wards suggested...wrks great.... shorth bolt no washers +2 roller with stm 46/36 helix in STM green snow prow 3rd hole and clicker on 3, mine comes out 88-8900 and pulls to 9050-9100 button spider . now i havent tryed the steeper helix with the draggie to see if any acceleration different,,,, and i was originally hesitant to put the +2 rollers in but it worked out to be same weight as the +1 with medium bolt and 2 washers, soo when Ron said thats what he runs and races with, i switched out and it was BANG on 88 -8900 rising to 9050-9100... also ... try XS811 belt with tapp and stm, Ron said it is needed when he tested on the dyno as the stock length belts tend to be stressed at wide open long pulls with the larger diameter tapp

Good info max and the same STM setup as the OP, should get him right smack in the window. I assume running the black primary spring as well.

I figured that with the +2 rollers that it would end up with short bolts and no weight added, certainly gives no adjustability to go lighter on less boost however.

 

[fatchance]

The titanium bolts come in handy running the plus 2 rollers for this reason, but you will give up RPM with the plus 2's.

 

[Upstater57]

I assume you converted the button style to the roller style. Was there any wear from the buttons on the clutch?

 

[remo1356]

Looking at getting a Tapp Roller Spider Primary For My 2019 SRX Along With Their New Secondary Setup. Wanted To Ask Anyone With The Roller Spider If It's Noisy. Hearing That It Is. This Is Strictly A Trail Sled.

 

[KnappAttack]

Looking at getting a Tapp Roller Spider Primary For My 2019 SRX Along With Their New Secondary Setup. Wanted To Ask Anyone With The Roller Spider If It's Noisy. Hearing That It Is. This Is Strictly A Trail Sled.

The TAPP roller spider makes noise yes. That said, so does the button spider TAPP at different RPM like around 4000 or so RPM as it gets some miles on it, but still a bunch better than the roller spider. Only clutch I have seen not make noise is the PB-80 and the old Cat TEAM is also what I'd call silent. I think the new ADAPT is also silent too. Haven't had many or any thru the shop here other than just to throw tunes in them. They are quiet from what I've heard.

The 998's three cylinder four stroke design is hard on clutches and just plain rattles the clutches, some are worse and some designs better. The old RX-1 primary is the loudest I've ever heard on this engine, but doesn't hurt anything. They go for miles rattling like buckets of bolts. The 1200 Ski-Doos rattled the old TRA the same way at certain RPMs. Its a 3 cylinder four-stroke thing. The gear reduced and rubber cushioned RX-1 and Apex engines were the absolute best at being easy on belts and clutches. Too bad we didn't have those engines in the Pro-Cross Chassis with a turbo!

 

[remo1356]

The TAPP roller spider makes noise yes. That said, so does the button spider TAPP at different RPM like around 4000 or so RPM as it gets some miles on it, but still a bunch better than the roller spider. Only clutch I have seen not make noise is the PB-80 and the old Cat TEAM is also what I'd call silent. I think the new ADAPT is also silent too. Haven't had many or any thru the shop here other than just to throw tunes in them. They are quiet from what I've heard.

The 998's three cylinder four stroke design is hard on clutches and just plain rattles the clutches, some are worse and some designs better. The old RX-1 primary is the loudest I've ever heard on this engine, but doesn't hurt anything. They go for miles rattling like buckets of bolts. The 1200 Ski-Doos rattled the old TRA the same way at certain RPMs. Its a 3 cylinder four-stroke thing. The gear reduced and rubber cushioned RX-1 and Apex engines were the absolute best at being easy on belts and clutches. Too bad we didn't have those engines in the Pro-Cross Chassis with a turbo!

Appreciate the info. As long as it is not overly excessive over the normal button setup I would still like to take advantage of the benefits of the roller spider. I'm currently using the stock Yamaha primary and it's noisy.