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The Motor oil geek

Doc Harley

Doc Harley

TY 4 Stroke God
Joined
Oct 17, 2016
Messages
3,456
Age
55
Location
Here & there
Country
USA
Snowmobile
'17 Sidewinder LTX SE
Any of you guys ever follow this guy? I believe him to have the most knowledgeable YouTube videos on oil and how it works.
He's not a fan of Oil marketing, such as mobile one & claims of a particular oil being the best.
Actually most current oil specifications are not the best. They do this for MPG and EPA and perhaps given up some durability?!?!
For instance limiting zddp, etc.
If Valvoline made a VR1 racing oil in 5W30 I'd probably switch to that. Joe Gibbs "Driven" has one at 5W30, appears to be very expensive, for my taste.
 
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Ya, I usually watch his videos and this one interested me the most because it talked about the Mobil 1 0W40, which is what I use in my sled. He is definitely the most knowledgeable out there on oil.
 
Mooseman said:
Ya, I usually watch his videos and this one interested me the most because it talked about the Mobil 1 0W40, which is what I use in my sled. He is definitely the most knowledgeable out there on oil.
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Guys got 25yrs in the field of lubrication technology. I like watching him break oils down to analyze and scrutinize, in a nice way. Lol.
I'm trying that Valvoline VR1 racing oil in my car (10w30) then I'll send it to his lab for analysis next year.
I've had the car for 30 years, it's boosted. I noticed the car maintained a higher oil pressure when hot then other typical 10w30 weight oils. Maybe it's just me.
 
Turboflash said:
For comparison, Rat540 Oil Blog is a good read when you get time. I don't think he posts to YouTube but he has a blog.
540ratblog.wordpress.com

540 RAT - Tech Facts, NOT Myths

540ratblog.wordpress.com 540ratblog.wordpress.com
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Gave that a quick look and maybe a missed something.
Lake speed aka Motor Oil Geek shows results and includes data. He's extremely versatile, owns his own business analyzing oil, one of the guys that helped formulate the Joe Gibbs racing oil (Driven), a rep for Total Seal rings, etc.
He's totally in favor of the zddp product in the correct PPM.
Turbo, when you get a chance try to watch at least three YouTube videos that match your interest.
I'm almost positive you wouldn't come back here and find rebuttal comments to refute his findings.
 
Nor sure these two disagree on basic findings/conclusions. I'm not convinced they're saying different things - just in a different way. I'm still in the camp that says the fundamental job of oil is to keep two metal parts separated from each other. Rat540 shows viscosity is only part of the equation. His testing is only based on oils ability to do that, no matter what viscosity is. His testing for his blog only rates oils ability to keep two metal parts (ie crank bearings/rod bearings; small end rod bearings/piston; camshaft bearings/cam bearings) separated at high load, high temps, high RPM, high HP. His blog does walk through viscosity at temp.
At the end of the day, we all want to use an oil that will "do it's job", prevent wear, reduce friction, all day every day. In the 998 turbo, there are a number of modern oils that will work. All that means is there are quite a few oils that meet or exceed the needs of the engine as we use it. I think there are some that are likely better than others. But, at the end of the day, if the oil you're using meets or exceeds the needs of the engine, that oil will work, and your engine will run normally (well).
I would say, after all is said, pick and use a highly rated oil (one that has testing to back it up). If you've run a particular oil and never had a problem, then keep using it. That only means you're running one that meets or exceeds the needs of your engine.
Personally, for my Stage 4, 330 HP 998, I run Amsoil 0W-30 Signature Series. Just like most on this site, I've never had an issue with oil, bearings all look like new upon inspection.
 
Yes, to all that you say. I was just trying to bring home the fact that most off-the-shelf oil contains the minimum of zinc phosphorus that an engine requires. Amsoil 0w30 contains higher levels of zddp, I just couldn't find the spec.
And the reason I bring this up is twofold, one being I believe the 998's need to be treated more like a race engine than a trail Rider, especially under higher levels of boost. And two, I've been using mobile one and I hate to admit that fact. Probably one of the most misleading oils to date. I say that because of all the hype we've been seeing over for the last 40 years. I would definitely consider it a low-grade performance oil, comparatively speaking.
Appreciate the dialogue
 
Rat540 blog has lots of pages devoted to zinc or zinc additives. Bottom line is oils with actual or claimed high zinc levels do not lubricate better or reduce friction better or prevent wear better. He says oils with high zinc levels can (and have) caused engine damage.
He also has lots of references to "The Oil Guy."
In his tests, Amsoil Signature Series holds 2 of the top 5 ratings out of the 250 oils he tested. His #1 oil is 5w-30 Quaker State Full Synthetic. He says he runs it in every engine he owns.
 
Turboflash said:
Rat540 blog has lots of pages devoted to zinc or zinc additives. Bottom line is oils with actual or claimed high zinc levels do not lubricate better or reduce friction better or prevent wear better. He says oils with high zinc levels can (and have) caused engine damage.
He also has lots of references to "The Oil Guy."
In his tests, Amsoil Signature Series holds 2 of the top 5 ratings out of the 250 oils he tested. His #1 oil is 5w-30 Quaker State Full Synthetic. He says he runs it in every engine he owns.
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Yes, Rat540 certainly stands behind Quaker State.
We have to be careful when we use the word "high". It can be misleading. The motor oil geek claims 1400ppm is The Sweet spot pending what's in the balance of the additive package. You are correct, higher doses, say doubling, would yield unfavorable results.
VR1 1400ppm
Driven 1400ppm
Amsoil 0w30?? (I'll need to keep digging on this one. But I fear amsoil doesn't disclose all the properties of their oil)
There are other additives to help promote oil stability like Boron, etc, as high levels of zinc and phosphorus are suspect to cause catalytic converter failure.
If you look in the 80s most of the oils had higher levels of zinc phosphorus and once they started seeing catalytic converters lifespan gets shortened they worked on newer formulas to remove the zinc and phosphorus to protect the converter, as described by the motor oil geek.
 
Here you go. This Blackstone report claims 800ppm with higher levels of boron, calcium, magnesium in their additive package
 
I'm sticking with Amsoil 0W-30 Signature Series unless or until something better proves to be better.
 
Turboflash said:
I'm sticking with Amsoil 0W-30 Signature Series unless or until something better proves to be better.
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Turbo, not my desire... I believe Amsoil to be extremely stable product
In all fairness there are a few members here that are rebuilding the 998s more so than most of us know.
Oil being the lifeblood that holds the engine together under extreme use, perhaps I'm just challenging riders on here to look at things differently.
I also believe when we crank up the boost, that some additional insurance is needed to potentially protect our engines from self-destruction.
In short, use good oil. But also educate yourself on why you made the decision to use the oil you do.
 
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I run Driven (Joe Gibbs) GP1 Syn Blend in my Chevy small block with flat tappet cam, it is great oil. Not a daily driver and only change oil once a year on it so worth it to me. I have not watched the oil geek, I will have to check it out.
 
This is a great video comparing Quaker State to Pennzoil Platinum. He explains everything in detail......
 
Doc Harley said:
Yes, to all that you say. I was just trying to bring home the fact that most off-the-shelf oil contains the minimum of zinc phosphorus that an engine requires. Amsoil 0w30 contains higher levels of zddp, I just couldn't find the spec.
And the reason I bring this up is twofold, one being I believe the 998's need to be treated more like a race engine than a trail Rider, especially under higher levels of boost. And two, I've been using mobile one and I hate to admit that fact. Probably one of the most misleading oils to date. I say that because of all the hype we've been seeing over for the last 40 years. I would definitely consider it a low-grade performance oil, comparatively speaking.
Appreciate the dialogue
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Mobile1 is actually an extremely good oil. I have used it for years in my Euro Audi's and Mercedes vehicles. I used to do used oil analysis on them, but because of the extremely low wear metals using Mobile1 0-40, I quit doing it a while back. The 0-40 FS which I use in my cars, does shear to a 30 weight rather quickly, which isn't so bad as the HTHS is higher than any 30 weight, and I have been thinking about using Mobile1 0-40 in the 998 as well knowing it will shear down to a 30 weight rather quickly. Mobie1 always leaves my engine clean inside doing 10,000 mile drain intervals. I've had the valve covers off at 200,000 miles before to know.


Turboflash said:
Rat540 blog has lots of pages devoted to zinc or zinc additives. Bottom line is oils with actual or claimed high zinc levels do not lubricate better or reduce friction better or prevent wear better. He says oils with high zinc levels can (and have) caused engine damage.
He also has lots of references to "The Oil Guy."
In his tests, Amsoil Signature Series holds 2 of the top 5 ratings out of the 250 oils he tested. His #1 oil is 5w-30 Quaker State Full Synthetic. He says he runs it in every engine he owns.
Click to expand...

I used to have a lot of respect for 540 Rat. I think he tests all the oils on his "unknown machine" that no one has ever seen, but because his #1 favorite Quaker State Full Synthetic 5-30 seized on his machine before even applying pressure testing it after being run for 5000 miles by his own admission, has me questioning his testing and how it even matters given his testing only tests it on the one armed bandit. There is a whole lot more to testing "NEW right out of the bottle" engine oils than just using it on that one arm bandit machine.

540 Rat is also so impressed with himself and condescending to anybody that would question his beliefs... I try to see all sides of things and then make informed decisions. The Oil Geek Lake Speed is one smart dude and I full believe 540 Rat tries to prove him wrong and is somehow trying to argue/compete with him with his belief on Zinc. 540 Rat has fallen out of flavor with me on his ideas that only 5-30 Quaker State oil is needed for any liquid cooled automobile. He full believes 0-40 Mobile1 is just way too think and not need in any engine and that Euro vehicles are inferior. I have no time for his stupid comments anymore. I believe it all started with him wiping a cam lobe on his engine, and his testing started from this, but there's a whole lot more to engine oil than Rat 540's testing reveals.
 
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