Timing Chain Help Needed

[cgustafs]

I am putting together a 07 Phaser 500 4-stroke that I didn't take apart (bought as a basket case). I have service manual and followed the method to install timing chain, cams and tensioner. However, when I lined up the single mark on the alternator hub with the pointer on the alternator housing, the marks on the cams were not quite parallel with the head gasket line. When I moved them another tooth, the lines toward the rear on each cam were just under the gasket line and not parallel again. The first time, the rear marks were just above the gasket line on the head. I moved the cams back to the original position (as a guess). When I turned the engine over so the double mark on the alternator aligned with pointer, the lines were parallel so I thought this was right. However now when I start the motor, it runs rough and is very hard starting. I installed the cams by holding tension on the exhaust cam so the chain was tight as explained in the manual.

So, do I go back and change cam timing? To what? What do the two marks on the alternator hub mean (e.g. the single I and the double II)?

Thanks

 

[UpstateNY_sleds]

I would double check the alignment of the cams. sounds like your off a tooth somewhere. did you replace the chain and sprockets?

 

[cgustafs]

new chain?

Thanks but no I did not replace either the chain or gears. I am thinking the alignment is off too. I will try to take pics tonight when I take it apart.

 

[cannondale27]

The single line is the TDC line so thats the one you need to align it with.I would guess double is for ignition timing.I havent checked on these but usually one tooth off is very noticeable as far as cam mark to head.Its possible the chain is stretched?

 

[cgustafs]

stretched chain

A stretched chain could explain it however, I didn't see any evidence in the engine that would cause it such as bent valves or marks on top of piston. I have put together a lot of OHC car engines and you are right, one tooth off is very noticeable so that is why I am really questioning this.

 

[UpstateNY_sleds]

Thats why I mentioned chain and sprockets....if the sprockets are wore out, there will be slop.

My guess is that you did not have all the slack taken up on the non tensioner side of the chain. when you installed tensioner, things moved. just a thought.

Its also a possibility you have bad plugs?

 

[cgustafs]

tensioner

Thanks for the tensioner thought. However, the mis alignment I mentioned above existed after the tensioner was installed and the motor turned over a couple times. I will take a pic to show before I tear motor down tonight with tensioner still on.

The sled had 1700 miles... could gears or chain wear that much? Is wear a concern on this model?

The plugs looked clean, but I did flood it once trying to start. The spark was one of the brightest I have seen but I know it changes under compression.... do the plugs have to be perfect?

 

[who8that]

At 1700 miles, wear is not a concern. Sometimes when doing timing chains, and belts, the marks are not dead to nutz on. Meaning they may just be off by what could be like 1/2 a tooth. I had no issues on mine. I would start from scratch and double check your work.

 

[cgustafs]

diagram

Thanks for the diagram... that was the one I have been following.

 

[cannondale27]

On the Nytro or vector forum there is a post that is similar.I believe to disengage the chain tensioner latch you have to turn motor backwards.That is where it can go wrong since the chain can lose tension between the two cam gears.I believe Grizzman ziptied chain to the sprockets to avoid it slipping during this process.Wouldnt it be possible to use a stiff wire or something to disengage the latch so you dont have to turn motor over?

http://www.ty4stroke.com/viewtopic.php?t=98452

 

[cgustafs]

pics

Thanks for the link. I had the same issue of loose chain when putting it together. However, I don't think that is the problem now as the tenioner is working and chain is tight. There doesn't appear to be any slack that would affect the timing. Here are the pics. The first one is hard to see but shows the pointer lined up with the mark. This is the correct mark as I put stick in plug hole and #1 cylinder is TDC. The next pic shows exhaust marks and the final pic shows intake. Again, when I advance it one tooth, the lines are downward sloping to the right just as much as they are upward sloping to the right now.

Ok, can't get pics to load, will try after I get this online so I don't loose it

 

[cgustafs]

pics

pics hopefully now

 

[cgustafs]

Exhaust

Marks on exhaust cam

 

[cgustafs]

Intake

Marks on intake cam

 

[cannondale27]

No chance the flywheel key is sheared?Otherwise if that mark is the right one it must be good.Hard to see the mark on flywheel.