ReX
TY 4 Stroke God
I would also go for electric brakes. My double trailer has electric brakes and weighs 2100lbs loaded. Even behind my 1 ton truck if the roads are icy I notice a significant increase in stopping distance (truck doesn't have a brake controller and the 35"x12.5" BFG MT tires don't have the best grip on slippery roads).
When I tow the trailer with my car (which has a good brake controller) I can stop just as well with or without the trailer (maybe even a little better with the trailer on slushy roads).
One downside to the electric brakes is every season before the snow flies I have to adjust the brakes after using the trailer the first time. The rust that builds up on the drums takes a layer off the shoes and leaves the brakes essentially useless until adjusted.
I agree with the others that the importance of trailer brakes really depends on the tow vehicle - and the tires on the tow vehicle. A set of good snow tires on a full size SUV or pickup and trailer brakes won't be as critical, but if you tow with a light tow vehicle in the winter I wouldn't think of building a custom trailer without installing brakes.
When I tow the trailer with my car (which has a good brake controller) I can stop just as well with or without the trailer (maybe even a little better with the trailer on slushy roads).
One downside to the electric brakes is every season before the snow flies I have to adjust the brakes after using the trailer the first time. The rust that builds up on the drums takes a layer off the shoes and leaves the brakes essentially useless until adjusted.
I agree with the others that the importance of trailer brakes really depends on the tow vehicle - and the tires on the tow vehicle. A set of good snow tires on a full size SUV or pickup and trailer brakes won't be as critical, but if you tow with a light tow vehicle in the winter I wouldn't think of building a custom trailer without installing brakes.
Don't you just love asking advice on the internet? Everyone has their own opinion...whether they actually answer your question, or just fire back with a question of their own.
Here's your brake laws: http://www.rvda.ca/ProviBrakeReqts.asp
Looks like 3,000 lbs is the standard cut-off in most of Canada.
Now if you're going to tow in the United States, maybe different. Laws vary WIDELY in the states, note Idaho (1,500) and North Dakota (ALL trailers must have brakes period) for example:
http://www.rockettrailers.com/TrailerBrakeLaws.htm
So your answer depends on where you're towing. AND as others have said, it also depends on the tow vehicle. READ YOUR OWNER'S MANUAL. Many manufacturers recommend trailer brakes at a certain trailer weight limit that is much less than local laws. For example 2007 Chevy full size trucks recommend brakes for any trailer over 2,000 lbs in their towing guide...and there are a lot of people out there who have absolutely no idea this is true about their big bad trucks. There's a lot of people out there towing 3,000+ pound boats without brakes with their 1/2 ton Chevys...maybe legal, but they have no idea they're working byeond GM's recommendation by a signficant amount. And then these people wonder why they can't keep rotors on their truck from warping every year....Hmmmm.....but that's another subject. But the manufacturers of cars or smaller trucks may request brakes at a lower weight limit than Chevy full size trucks...I don't know.
As for fear of maintenance? Heck, if you're capable of building your own trailer from scratch, I presume you're quite capable of occasionally trouble shooting and maintaining a simple trailer brake system.
I agree driving with trailer brakes is very nice...especially in winter when you can remotely actuate them in the occasional black ice situation to help control a fishtail. And all it takes is ONE close call in a panic stop where they shorten your stopping distance enough to eliminate or lessen an impact...that one instance will make them worth their weight in gold.
As for your $250 cost estimate, don't forget you'll need to add a controller to your vehicle to make 'em work.
I won't offer my opinion on whether you should get them or not. I'll just recommend you study all the facts and make your own call. Whatever you do, ignore the naysayers and enjoy the project! There's nothing like the satisfaction of building something yourself, to your own specs, to fill your own needs.
Here's your brake laws: http://www.rvda.ca/ProviBrakeReqts.asp
Looks like 3,000 lbs is the standard cut-off in most of Canada.
Now if you're going to tow in the United States, maybe different. Laws vary WIDELY in the states, note Idaho (1,500) and North Dakota (ALL trailers must have brakes period) for example:
http://www.rockettrailers.com/TrailerBrakeLaws.htm
So your answer depends on where you're towing. AND as others have said, it also depends on the tow vehicle. READ YOUR OWNER'S MANUAL. Many manufacturers recommend trailer brakes at a certain trailer weight limit that is much less than local laws. For example 2007 Chevy full size trucks recommend brakes for any trailer over 2,000 lbs in their towing guide...and there are a lot of people out there who have absolutely no idea this is true about their big bad trucks. There's a lot of people out there towing 3,000+ pound boats without brakes with their 1/2 ton Chevys...maybe legal, but they have no idea they're working byeond GM's recommendation by a signficant amount. And then these people wonder why they can't keep rotors on their truck from warping every year....Hmmmm.....but that's another subject. But the manufacturers of cars or smaller trucks may request brakes at a lower weight limit than Chevy full size trucks...I don't know.
As for fear of maintenance? Heck, if you're capable of building your own trailer from scratch, I presume you're quite capable of occasionally trouble shooting and maintaining a simple trailer brake system.
I agree driving with trailer brakes is very nice...especially in winter when you can remotely actuate them in the occasional black ice situation to help control a fishtail. And all it takes is ONE close call in a panic stop where they shorten your stopping distance enough to eliminate or lessen an impact...that one instance will make them worth their weight in gold.
As for your $250 cost estimate, don't forget you'll need to add a controller to your vehicle to make 'em work.
I won't offer my opinion on whether you should get them or not. I'll just recommend you study all the facts and make your own call. Whatever you do, ignore the naysayers and enjoy the project! There's nothing like the satisfaction of building something yourself, to your own specs, to fill your own needs.
JDMCRX
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Wow thanks for all the info. Truck is a 2002 Suzuki Grand Vitara 30" BFG a/t's.
The axle is $ 200 more with electric brakes and the controlers $50-99.
Im just curious i got a feeling ill be doing alot of trailering this winter and some of it is up in the hill roads
The axle is $ 200 more with electric brakes and the controlers $50-99.
Im just curious i got a feeling ill be doing alot of trailering this winter and some of it is up in the hill roads
ReX
TY 4 Stroke God
When it comes to brake controllers it is definitely worth getting a decent one and understanding how they work.
Most of the cheaper ones (including most if not all Reese ones) are simply a timed ramp up of voltage that starts as soon as the tow vehicles brake lights come on. IMO these shouldn't even be allowed on the roads as they are just about useless in an emergency braking situation.
Make sure you get an inertia based controller (or better yet a pedal position sensing or even better a hydraulic pressure sensing one). The inertia controllers such as the Dexter DX2 or Techonsha Prodigy apply the trailer brakes proportionally to how much the tow vehicle is slowing down. If you slam on the brakes in an emergency (and you have the controller adjusted properly) the trailer brakes will be applied hard the instant the tow vehicle's brakes start to work.
The Prodigy is typically considered the best inertia brake controller available. Unfortunately it isn't matched all that well to 7" electric brakes (typically found on ~2000 lbs axles). The problem is the Prodigy uses a pulse width modulated voltage controller (almost all do) with a pulse frequency that excites a mechanical resonance within the 7" brakes. What happens is just as you're rolling to a stop the brakes start to "sing" (sortof like a bus or heavy truck sounds) and the brakes grab hard. You end up with annoyingly harsh stops and are forced to turn down the controller (so at higher speeds the brakes aren't being used as much as they should be).
For 7" brakes the Dexter DX2 controller works well (and it's cheaper than the Prodigy).
Most of the cheaper ones (including most if not all Reese ones) are simply a timed ramp up of voltage that starts as soon as the tow vehicles brake lights come on. IMO these shouldn't even be allowed on the roads as they are just about useless in an emergency braking situation.
Make sure you get an inertia based controller (or better yet a pedal position sensing or even better a hydraulic pressure sensing one). The inertia controllers such as the Dexter DX2 or Techonsha Prodigy apply the trailer brakes proportionally to how much the tow vehicle is slowing down. If you slam on the brakes in an emergency (and you have the controller adjusted properly) the trailer brakes will be applied hard the instant the tow vehicle's brakes start to work.
The Prodigy is typically considered the best inertia brake controller available. Unfortunately it isn't matched all that well to 7" electric brakes (typically found on ~2000 lbs axles). The problem is the Prodigy uses a pulse width modulated voltage controller (almost all do) with a pulse frequency that excites a mechanical resonance within the 7" brakes. What happens is just as you're rolling to a stop the brakes start to "sing" (sortof like a bus or heavy truck sounds) and the brakes grab hard. You end up with annoyingly harsh stops and are forced to turn down the controller (so at higher speeds the brakes aren't being used as much as they should be).
For 7" brakes the Dexter DX2 controller works well (and it's cheaper than the Prodigy).
JDMCRX said:
OK....now I have an opinion. From what I can research on-line (www.edmunds.com), a 2002 Grand Vitara had a max towing capacity of 1500 lbs. And you have oversize tires on it which further reduces your towing capacity and dramatically strains the braking system. And you're going to be towing in hills which creates longer stopping distances and more strain on the brakes.
So given the knowledge of your tow vehicle and intended use, now my strong opinion is that you need to install the trailer brakes, AND go back to stock wheels/tires on your Suzuki. Or buy a better tow vehicle.
mikeb
Expert
If your talking about surge brakes they are mostly ineffective in slippery conditions. The tow vehicle has to be able to brake hard to activate the brakes.
I have been towing boats for years and I found that while the brakes are nice when the work they are more trouble than they are worth.
If you where talking a heavy trailer I would use eclectic.
Also, I would try to get some of the weight out of the trailer your building. Easier on both the tow vehicle and your wallet.
I have been towing boats for years and I found that while the brakes are nice when the work they are more trouble than they are worth.
If you where talking a heavy trailer I would use eclectic.
Also, I would try to get some of the weight out of the trailer your building. Easier on both the tow vehicle and your wallet.
JDMCRX
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The truck is ratted for 2000 lbs. tow capicty in canada. Now ive towed 3500 lbs and have had no prob in the summer. WInter ive pulled a double enclosed trailer with 2 rx-1s. Braking never faded and never had a problem pulling them. The truck come with 12.5" front rotors and are pretty decent in thickness. Rear drum as 13" drums.
I was curious to what u guys think of the trailers with elec brakes in the winter. Every trailer ive towed had no electric brakes.
I get different answers from everyone.
Im not gonna change trucks yet as this truck i use for daily driving and main thing is a house now.
Few people were telling me coming into a corner with electric brakes the trailer brakes locked up lost traction and the trailer slide out and pulled there truck.
I was curious to what u guys think of the trailers with elec brakes in the winter. Every trailer ive towed had no electric brakes.
I get different answers from everyone.
Im not gonna change trucks yet as this truck i use for daily driving and main thing is a house now.
Few people were telling me coming into a corner with electric brakes the trailer brakes locked up lost traction and the trailer slide out and pulled there truck.
ReX
TY 4 Stroke God
JDMCRX said:
The brake controller has everything to do with how the brakes are applied. A cheap timer based controller will also lock up the trailer on slippery surfaces after the brake lights have been on for several seconds.
My electric trailer brakes combined with the DX2 controller are an extremely good safety addition for winter driving. I've never had the trailer slide out around a corner due to the trailer brakes and the car/trailer combination stops as well as any other vehicle out there, even in the slipperiest conditions (the car also has 4 premium snow tires and the trailer has a set of all season radial trailer tires that also grip very well in the winter).
Go for the electric brakes and a good controller. You won't regret it!
QCRider
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JDMCRX said:
Add the bakes. I was speaking from my own perspective of a full size SUV, I would add the brakes if towing with a vehicle that size.
I'll reinforce those who say the quality of the controller is critical to prevent accidental lockups, etc. Such problems rarely have anything to do with the brakes on the trailer itself...it's the controller that doesn't know what to do and when to do it. Tekonsha Prodigy...IMO there is none better, and I have towed with a LOT of different controllers on electric brakes of various sized trailers over the years. The controller makes ALL the difference when running electrics.
And as I stated earlier, electric brakes in the winter are a great benefit IMO. Gives a greater degree of control in slippery situations.
And as I stated earlier, electric brakes in the winter are a great benefit IMO. Gives a greater degree of control in slippery situations.
ReX
TY 4 Stroke God
craze1cars said:
The Prodigy is the best, except for the resonance problem with the 7" Dexter brakes.
A few years ago I worked with engineering at both Dexter and Techonsha to try to resolve this issue, but after several months Techonsha gave up on solving the issue (they were trying to move their PWM frequency higher). They decided that the market for a high end controller used with the smallest brakes available wasn't big enough to justify the increased cost of the electronics.
If you're running 7" Dexter brakes, the Dexter DX2 controller is probably the best bet (at least it was a few years ago) - for all other brakes I highly recommend the Prodigy.
BTW, the Prodigy will work with 7" brakes. The brakes are just noisy and grab when you come to a stop (making you want to turn down the gain and making the brakes less functional at higher speeds). With the DX2 the brakes are silent and operate more linearly. On the downside, the DX2 doesn't damp out bumps in the road while braking as well so you still get the "grabbing" on bumpy roads.
The ultimate solution - 10" brakes and a Prodigy.
