tuner ski carbide setup?

[Alsim]

Thx !

 

[Blue Dave]

Ordered the 8" Bergstrom triple points on the inside, and his hard weld bar for the outside. I'll let you know how it turns out.

I am going to run the exact same set-up. Please let me know what you think after you have had a chance to test it out.

 

[ViperJim34]

Dave I'm running 6in shapers on the inside and outside on my tuners. I've only ridden with them on the lake but seem to work there pretty good.

 

[AXR]

@SRXracer any reports on how the triple points worked out?

 

[Blue Dave]

This last weekend I rode my 2015 Viper RTX DX for the very first time on trails. I have 135 Fast- Trac 1.375" Top Gun II studs up the middle of the track and I have 8" Bergstrom triple points on the inside and Bergstrom hard weld bars on the outside of my stock skis. This is the exact same carbide set-up that I had on my '07 Apex with tuner skis. This set-up worked excellent on the Apex but not nearly as good on the Viper.

The first day the trails were covered with loose snow and the Viper pushed terribly in the corners. It pushed so badly that it was actually quite dangerous at times. I had to practically sit on the gas tank and be completely off the throttle in the corners to get it to turn.

The second day the trails had been groomed and they were hard packed. This made a huge difference! I could corner quite well on the hard packed groomed trails. Some of the improvement possibly could have been attributed to my having learned new riding techniques on the Viper (compared to my Apex) to get the Viper to turn better. Pushing hard with your foot in the outside footwell and allowing the sled to roll over on the outside ski while lifting the inside ski slightly seemed to be the required technique. However I really believe that the snow conditions were the major difference.

I saw an article in the latest issue of SnowGoer magazine that said that the 2014 SR Viper RTX SE turned very poorly in loose snow because the skis "wash out" in loose snow more than other designs. I realize that the 2015 Viper ski is different than the 2014 ski but my experience is that it still is not a good loose snow ski.

I called Scott Bergstrom and asked him if swapping the carbides around (triple points on the outside edge) would help and he said that would actually make things worse. He then asked me if I had shimmed under the ski mount rubber stops. That is when I realized that when I traded in my Apex on the Viper that I swapped the carbides between the sleds but not the shims! Scott felt strongly that a 3/8" shim under the back of each rubber stop would help greatly. I will be adding the shims before my next ride and I will let you guys know if it makes a difference.

I could also pull my front limiter strap up one hole to get more ski pressure but I want to try one thing at a time to see what makes the most difference. I really hope that I the shims do the trick and I can leave the front limiter strap alone since I like having the front end light.

 

[TD Max]

I'm not sure how shimming would help with push?

I like the concept of the shaper bar holding the snow. I also find mine with 7.5" shapers and stock junk outside to push. Thinking another shaper outside, but if you look at what the bottom of the ski does in a turn, the outer lifts anyhow. I brought my limiter up a hole and not a ton of difference.

I'm thinking a single keel ski may be the better choice. Also curious about the Doo Pilot ski's as mentioned in a different thread. It's an interesting concept in that the Inner is on the main keel and the outer is on a droop keel so it stays off the surface in many cases. I have the Pilots and 6" shapers on the Renegade. It steers much better, but takes more effort. I have shims for both thinking the Doo needs them more to help steering effort. The Viper steers very easy already.

 

[Kerrdog569]

I'm not sure how shimming would help with push?

I like the concept of the shaper bar holding the snow. I also find mine with 7.5" shapers and stock junk outside to push. Thinking another shaper outside, but if you look at what the bottom of the ski does in a turn, the outer lifts anyhow. I brought my limiter up a hole and not a ton of difference.

I'm thinking a single keel ski may be the better choice. Also curious about the Doo Pilot ski's as mentioned in a different thread. It's an interesting concept in that the Inner is on the main keel and the outer is on a droop keel so it stays off the surface in many cases. I have the Pilots and 6" shapers on the Renegade. It steers much better, but takes more effort. I have shims for both thinking the Doo needs them more to help steering effort. The Viper steers very easy already.

This is why I didn't spend the money on 2 sets of shaper bars as I'm not liking how this ski turns in any amount of snow over about 2inches,just went with the cheaper yamaha/woody's 6in in and outside,works great on trail but the ski is the biggest problem IMO for any powder/off trail,triple threats with 7.5 shapers will be on mine next year

 

[dlinebacker36w]

So your saying tighten the limiter strap up one hole to get more ski pressure what's that dong to ur treansfer to the track on the ground?

 

[Blue Dave]

It will reduce weight transfer to the track. That is why I would rather not make that trade off.

 

[AXR]

Ok well I just gave Scott Bergstrom a call and we decided on 6" triple points inside and hard welded bars outside. 3/8 ski savers all around and possibility a 3/8 shim in the backs. I will have to test it to see. He seems like a real nice guy and also requests feedback if you order his product to help better the future. When you call him remember he is on central time and I think is at lunch between 12-1 as there was no answer when I called @12:30 central. Called back @ about 10 after 1 and the phone was promptly answered on the 2nd or 3rd ring by what sounded to be an older lady... maybe his wife? I asked for Scott and explained I wanted to talk about carbides. She told me to hold and I was speaking w/him within a minute. A+ service in my book. Oh he did say that he thinks next season all the yammies will have the tuners on them and we might start to see more darting issues when more and more tuner profile tracks are left on the trails. Just the nature of the beast I guess, unless you have some sort of custom ski that only you use and then you will not have any problem with finding tracks with the same profile :-Þ

If I do find that I need a little more then 6" I will wait till next season and order up the 8" and stick the 6's on the outside.

 

[Blue Dave]

Ok well I just gave Scott Bergstrom a call and we decided on 6" triple points inside and hard welded bars outside. 3/8 ski savers all around and possibility a 3/8 shim in the backs. I will have to test it to see. He seems like a real nice guy and also requests feedback if you order his product to help better the future. When you call him remember he is on central time and I think is at lunch between 12-1 as there was no answer when I called @12:30 central. Called back @ about 10 after 1 and the phone was promptly answered on the 2nd or 3rd ring by what sounded to be an older lady... maybe his wife? I asked for Scott and explained I wanted to talk about carbides. She told me to hold and I was speaking w/him within a minute. A+ service in my book. Oh he did say that he thinks next season all the yammies will have the tuners on them and we might start to see more darting issues when more and more tuner profile tracks are left on the trails. Just the nature of the beast I guess, unless you have some sort of custom ski that only you use and then you will not have any problem with finding tracks with the same profile :-Þ

If I do find that I need a little more then 6" I will wait till next season and order up the 8" and stick the 6's on the outside.

Scott is a great guy and he always has time to talk to his customers on the phone. I have bought carbides from him for many years now on my various Yamaha's

Scott is s big promotor of the ski savers and the shims. I forgot to move my shims from my Apex to my Viper and Scott felt that was the main reason for my pushing in the corners.

If you are studded you should really consider the 8" triple points instead of the 6". I have 135 studs up the middle and my 8" triple points were not effective. I hope that the shims fix my push.

 

[AXR]

nope no studs and I don't get to do allot of true high speed corner to corner riding. I ride 99% of the time with older guys. 50's-70. So I am hoping the 6" will do. Heck anything should corner better then my apex. Least it won't want to flip over LOL.

 

[Blue Dave]

nope no studs and I don't get to do allot of true high speed corner to corner riding. I ride 99% of the time with older guys. 50's-70. So I am hoping the 6" will do. Heck anything should corner better then my apex. Least it won't want to flip over LOL.

Actually my Apex with Tuner skis and the same Bergstrom set up (except for the shims) cornered much better than my Viper.

Hopefully the shims are the difference or I will have to pull the front limiter strap up to get more ski pressure.

 

[SounderMN]

We ran some roads, but overall the snow conditions were pretty good, too. Day 2 involved trying to get a viper with a serious push thru the trails.
.

Wow, that's a great point. I have 650 miles on the sled and noticed a LOT of push in the corner. Changing the suspension setup helped tremendously, but that push is still there. I guess I need to take a closer look at those carbides! Sounds like the favorite here is the shaper bars, right? Or the Bergstroms. I have experience with those, and liked them... and I know how long it might be before I get anything from Scotty B.

 

[SounderMN]

Hey guys, looking at the Royal Dist web site, there is no listing for a 15 Viper (tuner skis) on either the shaper bars or the Stud Boy dual runners. Does this mean there is no option for us with new sleds?