Turbo or SC?? - Pros/Cons

[ROCKERDAN]

Ive been lurking around this forum for 2 yrs reading all i can on turbos and SCs....after two seasons ago my Apex and NOS didnt work out so well and I had a major engine rebuild to do....so i learned alot about this motor when i put it back together.

anyway....I have been leaning toward the MPI SC more then ever,since i want a 90% trail sled that i can go out and radar run with. I ride Muskoka,Ontario...No mountain riding,all trails and very twisty ones at that and lots of long lakes so it needs to be able to run long WOT lake runs .... for the trails I realize how important a BOV will be with these twisty type of trails.

BTW this is 121 shorty with 1" predator,im not so worried about traction as i wont really be drag racing it....I am more wanting it for the radar gun which we like to pull out as much as possible. I want to be able to run 130+ at will and higher on long hauls.

as of now im leaning toward MPIs SC at 10-11 lbs(stage 1 w/standard pulley setup) along with a headshim and ARP 10mm studs to be safe running premium 91 pump fuel in my area. I dont want to deal with race fuel or worry at all about hurting the motor.

Turbo VS SC..???

1- Fuel economy of turbo VS SC?

2- Drive-ability on twisty trails of turbo VS SC?

3- Can i use my Pc3 & ignition module?(instead of MPIs GEMS)

4- with the SC, how hard is it to get at stock OIL FILTER??

5- with SC,drilling holes in nose cone,wont snow pile into there?

6- Can i use my RAM AIR LID,to cover the IC on SC for stealth look?

7- What chaincase gearing?(currently 23/38 Im guessing 25/38 for top speed?)

8- Currently running Dalton DPYRs with Proline/dalton helix and springs..would i simply need to add more TIP WEIGHT for clutching?

9- will the chaincase and driveshaft be the weak link now with 240HP?

10- is there a reduction valve made for a SC(to reduce boost levels for low grade fuel in outlying areas)


this is my dailey driver so it needs to be running well all the time...i like to tinker,but dont want to be fixing things all the time....it seems the turbos have gotten the header bugs worked out but is a turbo as good as a SC for trails?.....heat issues?....is a turbo better on fuel economy???

anything else anyone can add i appreciate it....I know some of the local guys here like Stone and Machzrobbie have shown how much they like their MPIs....but would love to hear more from you guys too,give me the good,the bad and the ugly.

thanks
Dan

 

[mulot30th]

In the mountain out where altitude changes greatly I would use a turbo, but flatlander or not too much altitude change a blower.

I have the two and that is my experience that the turbo will be easily able to retain the same hp regardless of altitude unless the turbo is too small.

the supercharger will lose hp just the same way a N/A engine would as altitude climbs..

 

[mulot30th]

That being said:

Turbo VS SC..???

1- Fuel economy of turbo VS SC? turbo more economical

2- Drive-ability on twisty trails of turbo VS SC? SC

3- Can i use my Pc3 & ignition module?(instead of MPIs GEMS) YES gems sucks

4- with the SC, how hard is it to get at stock OIL FILTER?? not easy at all.

5- with SC,drilling holes in nose cone,wont snow pile into there? yes it can but only if you go boondocking in powder

6- Can i use my RAM AIR LID,to cover the IC on SC for stealth look? only if there is sufficient airflow or use a water to air intercooler.

7- What chaincase gearing?(currently 23/38 Im guessing 25/38 for top speed?) 25/38 is good

8- Currently running Dalton DPYRs with Proline/dalton helix and springs..would i simply need to add more TIP WEIGHT for clutching?

9- will the chaincase and driveshaft be the weak link now with 240HP? not is proprely maintained

10- is there a reduction valve made for a SC(to reduce boost levels for low grade fuel in outlying areas)[/b] yes GForce does sell them.

 

[yammi4ever]

Last I knew MPI was not supporting a headshim (wish they were) so you may be on your own to figure that out.

Looks like they have their customer service in good shape now, if they had last year i would probably have one now. No complaints with my turbo though.

 

[TurboJamie]

SC for trail riding take it from someone who had both. Stage I SC is where its at for trails 5 - 7 psi will pass 90% of the sleds out there and will scare the pants off ya on accelleration.

 

[ROCKERDAN]

thanks guys...

Jamie,do you think i should stick with the low boost(6lbs) setup?

i really would like to keep it very trailable and would love to keep best fuel economy i can for my dailey driver. would there be a huge difference in economy from 5lbs to 10lbs boost?

Id like to be able to run 10lbs boost with a pulley swap for radar runs on some weekends,so would i still be best to do a headshim or will that not work so well on low boost too?

or should i stick with a stock head gasket,arp studs and 5-6lbs boost.....then just grab some avgas for those radar days?...

I think overal i will trail ride alot more then radar run....

but i know too,that boost is addictive,and im afraid if i go with 5lbs,then ill want more....and if i go with headshim right off the bat i can start with 10lbs and 240hp.....

i know there arent alot of guys who trail ride/flatland these boosted sleds....so its tough to get good answers...

I want to thank machzrobbie for talking to me today and really giving me some good hands on info....his setup is killer.

Dan

 

[kinger]

My personal set up is stage 1 MPI on shimmed engine running 10:1 CR. Sled is at ulmers right now getting dynoed. I trail ride only so I am anxious to see how turn key this set up is. Allen adjusted the Gems and vortech BOV and is confident I'll 10-11 mpg crusing less if your in the boost all the time. He thinks with the 1" track i have it will hit 135mph+, nothing will touch that, and I can still ride trouble free just adding 91 fuel seems unbelievable to me!! Wow they have come a long ways in sleds!

I wanted my set up tinker free and max hp on 91 fuel. Changing pullies is a PITA and I knew what ever I set up at it wouldn't get touched again.

 

[machzed]

thanks guys...

Jamie,do you think i should stick with the low boost(6lbs) setup?

i really would like to keep it very trailable and would love to keep best fuel economy i can for my dailey driver. would there be a huge difference in economy from 5lbs to 10lbs boost?

Id like to be able to run 10lbs boost with a pulley swap for radar runs on some weekends,so would i still be best to do a headshim or will that not work so well on low boost too?

or should i stick with a stock head gasket,arp studs and 5-6lbs boost.....then just grab some avgas for those radar days?...

I think overal i will trail ride alot more then radar run....

but i know too,that boost is addictive,and im afraid if i go with 5lbs,then ill want more....and if i go with headshim right off the bat i can start with 10lbs and 240hp.....

i know there arent alot of guys who trail ride/flatland these boosted sleds....so its tough to get good answers...

I want to thank machzrobbie for talking to me today and really giving me some good hands on info....his setup is killer.

Dan

Definetly the S/C throttle response is spot on and so is driveability once you get the gems setup properly, you will not be disappointed

 

[ROCKERDAN]

Definetly the S/C throttle response is spot on and so is driveability once you get the gems setup properly, you will not be disappointed

wow,you got my OLD SCREENAME!!!...i was known as machzed on dootalk and here for a few yrs,then i changed it!....ironic!

I definitely am going to go SC now....and after talking with DAVE at Hurricane ,im thinking of removing my current pc3/ign module and going with a RB3 setup with the MPI,Dave likes this alot and ive heard nothing but good things....I will not be using the GEMS.

Dan

 

[ROCKERDAN]

My personal set up is stage 1 MPI on shimmed engine running 10:1 CR. Sled is at ulmers right now getting dynoed. I trail ride only so I am anxious to see how turn key this set up is. Allen adjusted the Gems and vortech BOV and is confident I'll 10-11 mpg crusing less if your in the boost all the time. He thinks with the 1" track i have it will hit 135mph+, nothing will touch that, and I can still ride trouble free just adding 91 fuel seems unbelievable to me!! Wow they have come a long ways in sleds!

I wanted my set up tinker free and max hp on 91 fuel. Changing pullies is a PITA and I knew what ever I set up at it wouldn't get touched again.

Kinger,ive read alot of your posts and im glad you chimed in here....so it sounds like you have the exact setup i was thinking of myself.....i assume you havent rode it yet though right?....what are you using exactly for headshim?...split stock gasket(top and bottom) with shim from cometic?

my ONLY TWO reasons for wanting to possibly stick to 5 lbs low boost would be...

1- Fuel economy
2- driveability on twisty trails


other then those two things,im sure i would much rather run 10lbs boost...Im just so afraid it will be a pig on fuel and only get 50-60 miles per tankful,as ive heard most guys are lucky to get 100miles on 5lbs boost.....so i cant see 10 lbs boost ever getting much more.

Dan

 

[86blackt]

You said you used to ride Doo right? So it will be like flashing back to 90 or 100 mile tanks of gas. I know my 06 1000 and my 01 800 only got 100 to a tank. The XP would get a little more. Will see how the XTX does.

 

[kinger]

Yes your right I haven't rode it after the head shim install from ulmer. I'm using a cometic head gasket that is thick enough to lower compression to 10:1

I dont think driveability will be much different at 5 or 10 lbs you just need to be real careful on the throttle pressure. Theoretically the shim will cause some 'lag' or softness in the bottom end but with the quickness of boost I bet it will still be snappier then stock.

There is nothing wrong with the GEMS it just takes some setting up hence why I took it to the pro to let Ulmer set it up on a dyno then no tinkering is needed from me I was clear when I dropped it that I wanted to turn the key and go all winter and do any maint in the summer NOT the winter and Ulmer just laughed. Dude is good so over the years I learned when to fold them and hand off parts of the install to people that are pros at it. I'm really hoping this thing will scare the wee out of me. I'm a little worried it will be kill me now LOL

 

[ROCKERDAN]

Yes your right I haven't rode it after the head shim install from ulmer. I'm using a cometic head gasket that is thick enough to lower compression to 10:1

I dont think driveability will be much different at 5 or 10 lbs you just need to be real careful on the throttle pressure. Theoretically the shim will cause some 'lag' or softness in the bottom end but with the quickness of boost I bet it will still be snappier then stock.

There is nothing wrong with the GEMS it just takes some setting up hence why I took it to the pro to let Ulmer set it up on a dyno then no tinkering is needed from me I was clear when I dropped it that I wanted to turn the key and go all winter and do any maint in the summer NOT the winter and Ulmer just laughed. Dude is good so over the years I learned when to fold them and hand off parts of the install to people that are pros at it. I'm really hoping this thing will scare the wee out of me. I'm a little worried it will be kill me now LOL

LOL....i hear ya!

im kicking around the idea of 24/24 pulleys to run around 8lbs boost,along with 2 headgaskets......sort of a compromise between 10 and 5lbs and keep alittle higher compression then headshim.

If i knew for sure i would get 100 miles to tankful on trails i would surely go with the 26/24 pulleys at 10lbs and headshim.....i just havent heard anyone think that is even possible though. if guys with 5 lbs low boost setups and stock head gaskets are only getting 100 miles to a tank i cant see anything higher getting that mileage....and trail riding is big for me...not having to be chasing the fuel always.

damn....decisions decisions!..lol

Dan

 

[kinger]

I'll be sure to report my mpg but Allen is confident it will get 10-11mp or 100-110 miles crusing on a trail between 60-90mph. They way I like the throttle ON or OFF though I'm bracing for a few 50 mile tanks! LOL

I would go 5psi no shim or 10 psi and shim and forget the in between. Trust me I did every cut/slice/dice of the combos with the hp calculator at the top of the stickies and from all advice I think I got the best combo, and the vortech BOV is key to getting that 10-11 mpg

I'm also going look at places to carry some extra fuel.

 

[Skydog]

S.C. bang on power and slowly falls off. Turbo builds power and NEVER STOPS hahah


Skydog