Turbo or SC?? - Pros/Cons

[ROCKERDAN]

I'll be sure to report my mpg but Allen is confident it will get 10-11mp or 100-110 miles crusing on a trail between 60-90mph. They way I like the throttle ON or OFF though I'm bracing for a few 50 mile tanks! LOL

I would go 5psi no shim or 10 psi and shim and forget the in between. Trust me I did every cut/slice/dice of the combos with the hp calculator at the top of the stickies and from all advice I think I got the best combo, and the vortech BOV is key to getting that 10-11 mpg

I'm also going look at places to carry some extra fuel.

I know damn well if i dont go 10lbs I will end up wanting more!!...LOL....i guess this is an addiction right!!

I am leaning toward not using the GEMS and going with RB3 setup,i like the idea of RB3 better ,but id love to keep my pc3 setup i have now if more mapping was available...Dave seems to like the RB3 and so does Powderlites so im gonna stick with what they say.

keep me posted on your build...and how Allen makes out with your setup...I hope to get my project underway by early december at latest,and have it done by the holidays.

then Im sure ill be in for some tinkering,and clutching to get her dialed....

Dan

 

[TurboJamie]

thanks guys...

Jamie,do you think i should stick with the low boost(6lbs) setup?

i really would like to keep it very trailable and would love to keep best fuel economy i can for my dailey driver. would there be a huge difference in economy from 5lbs to 10lbs boost?

Id like to be able to run 10lbs boost with a pulley swap for radar runs on some weekends,so would i still be best to do a headshim or will that not work so well on low boost too?

or should i stick with a stock head gasket,arp studs and 5-6lbs boost.....then just grab some avgas for those radar days?...

I think overal i will trail ride alot more then radar run....

but i know too,that boost is addictive,and im afraid if i go with 5lbs,then ill want more....and if i go with headshim right off the bat i can start with 10lbs and 240hp.....

i know there arent alot of guys who trail ride/flatland these boosted sleds....so its tough to get good answers...

I want to thank machzrobbie for talking to me today and really giving me some good hands on info....his setup is killer.

Dan

My opinion is for a trail sled you cannot compare the mpi stage 1 to anything else. If you are not looking to slaughter everyone else out there have a stealth sled no one knows is modded till you pass them at 100 then the SC is for you. No exhaust mods no body mods stock head light stock tank etc...

I ride southern ontario and New Liskard area alot when I had my SC at 60+ I could manage 100 miles to a tank running packed trails. get playing in the pow and the mileage drops signifigantly. the more boost you are into the more gas you gobble. Gearing and clutching also can be tuned to keep trail RPM lower I noticed more gas mildage with going up a tooth on the top gear to lower cruise RPM just like shifting into OD. The more you can do to lower cruise RPM the more it helps. SC typically makes about 1.5 - 3 psi when cruising. I have heard with a BOV you can really reduce gas consumption its nothing I have experience with. I beleive MPI also now has an electronically controlled dump valve so I would research that. To me 5 psi pulles spinning the engine 11k gets you close to 6.5 psi boost. Thats perfect for pump gas and safe if you get some crappy fuel. Then if you get some C-12 for 10 psi on the lake you should be good personally I would overshoot the octane a bit to C-16 or something just to be on the safe side. Its all about not being greedy and understanding what is in your fuel tank.

I used to run a splash of av gas when at our place in new liskard because the pumps at the lodge only sell 87 so I would put a couple gallons of AV in then fill up. never had any troubles.

Stick with the AEM wideband the others I have tried innovative and koso were sensetive to av gas and MS98L I used to use. The AEM is a good gauge.

 

[ROCKERDAN]

thanks ,great info Jamie....

are you running a turbo now?....maybe we can hookup this winter for some riding since you arent far from me....my cottage where i ride is on Mary Lake and I love liskeard area ,especially when our snow melts its nice to head north in march.

When i blew my motor 2 season ago with NOS i did some major damage,got a new block,one piston,one rod and all bearings and rings ect....

the block was blown out or round on cyl 3 bad,and my head was out abit too,but not bad enough to not run stock motor.

So ive been running the stock motor for 2 seasons since fine,but i know with BOOST that slightly warped head will come back to haunt me.

So since i need head planed, I plan to go with ARP 10mm studs,and figured it just makes sense to do the headshim now while im there. i guess thats why i feel i might as well just go to 10lb boost setup right off the bat.

Hoping with the new MPI BOV and a good RB3 tune my economy will be decent.

really cant wait to get this project going!

Dan

 

[ROCKERDAN]

just had a question on MPI SCs.....

is there a difference in stage 1 and stage 2 as far as the blower itself?

or are the exact same blowers in both stages.

Dan

 

[mulot30th]

stage 1 is c15-30
stage 2 is c30-74

 

[DC5]

Stage 1 is the C15-60

 

[TurboJamie]

thanks ,great info Jamie....

are you running a turbo now?....maybe we can hookup this winter for some riding since you arent far from me....my cottage where i ride is on Mary Lake and I love liskeard area ,especially when our snow melts its nice to head north in march.

When i blew my motor 2 season ago with NOS i did some major damage,got a new block,one piston,one rod and all bearings and rings ect....

the block was blown out or round on cyl 3 bad,and my head was out abit too,but not bad enough to not run stock motor.

So ive been running the stock motor for 2 seasons since fine,but i know with BOOST that slightly warped head will come back to haunt me.

So since i need head planed, I plan to go with ARP 10mm studs,and figured it just makes sense to do the headshim now while im there. i guess thats why i feel i might as well just go to 10lb boost setup right off the bat.

Hoping with the new MPI BOV and a good RB3 tune my economy will be decent.

really cant wait to get this project going!

Dan

Dan I sold my turbo apex. Do not buy I head shim I have one from a Powderlites kit you can HAVE. Then you can run 10 psi on pump gas no problem since you have the head off stuff the shim in forsure.

You can either come get the shim if you are in the area or? Just don't want it to get kinked or something shipping it any ideas?

 

[mulot30th]

Stage 1 is the C15-60

my error sorry

 

[KnappAttack]

Simons turbo hands down for the Apex Dan. Flatland turbo setup made by a flatland company. Supercharger is OK, but no where close on power or mileage boost for boost.

Simons turbo kits runs much nicer and much smoother on the trail than the super too. I've run both. Once you've had a GOOD flatland turbo kit you'll never go back to supercharger. Don't buy something for the flatland from an "altitude shop" I don't care how "good it looks", it has to perform for us at lower altitudes. Been there done that, won't do it again. Simons has performed for me best on all the Yamaha products I've owned and boosted.

 

[TurboJamie]

Turbo has one problem heat sorry Mike front mount regardless of kit is a hot running item. melting steering busings etc... There is absolutely zero reason not to buy an MPI kit for a trail sled zero zip zilch after having both I would never have a turbo trail sled again, for one to fast and two the extra's that you don't plan for.

 

[stone88]

Simons turbo hands down for the Apex Dan. Flatland turbo setup made by a flatland company. Supercharger is OK, but no where close on power or mileage boost for boost.

Simons turbo kits runs much nicer and much smoother on the trail than the super too. I've run both. Once you've had a GOOD flatland turbo kit you'll never go back to supercharger. Don't buy something for the flatland from an "altitude shop" I don't care how "good it looks", it has to perform for us at lower altitudes. Been there done that, won't do it again. Simons has performed for me best on all the Yamaha products I've owned and boosted.

Simons may be faster but to many heat issues for guy's like me who like to put on 5000-7000 miles a year. Headers cracking warping melting plastic and so on. If I decide to turbo my sled there is only 1 kit that is flat out reliable for the flatlands and that's the MC Xpress kit, I know several guys who ride as much as or more than me and have had 0 issues with them.
In the end it comes down to how much you want to spend and how much wrenching you want to do.

 

[ROCKERDAN]

I have to agree with Ernie and Jamie here....

from all my research about trail riding/flatland all seem to say SC is the way to go....corner to corner response and NO HEAT is the big thing....

and ernie is right for sure about the MCx...i have seen that mcx run on flatland and plain work!....no heat being a rear mount and lots of power.

however with the MCx or any turbo,the SOUND of the modified exhaust WONT FLY in muskoka....

Muskoka where I ride is a huge tourist area,and the cops come down harder there then anywhere in ontario IMO....even if your sled is quieter then stock,they will ticket ANY MODIFIED exhaust now....and we all know these turbos arent quiet.

I have pretty much come to a decision on going with 10 lbs setup with stage 1 blower and a cometic headshim with RB3.

love to hear all the pros and cons,and that is what makes these forums so fantastic....

looking so forward to radaring with all you ontario BOOSTED boys this winter....north bay or on my lake,when the ice is good ill have the gun!

Dan

 

[ROCKERDAN]

thanks ,great info Jamie....

are you running a turbo now?....maybe we can hookup this winter for some riding since you arent far from me....my cottage where i ride is on Mary Lake and I love liskeard area ,especially when our snow melts its nice to head north in march.

When i blew my motor 2 season ago with NOS i did some major damage,got a new block,one piston,one rod and all bearings and rings ect....

the block was blown out or round on cyl 3 bad,and my head was out abit too,but not bad enough to not run stock motor.

So ive been running the stock motor for 2 seasons since fine,but i know with BOOST that slightly warped head will come back to haunt me.

So since i need head planed, I plan to go with ARP 10mm studs,and figured it just makes sense to do the headshim now while im there. i guess thats why i feel i might as well just go to 10lb boost setup right off the bat.

Hoping with the new MPI BOV and a good RB3 tune my economy will be decent.

really cant wait to get this project going!

Dan

Dan I sold my turbo apex. Do not buy I head shim I have one from a Powderlites kit you can HAVE. Then you can run 10 psi on pump gas no problem since you have the head off stuff the shim in forsure.

You can either come get the shim if you are in the area or? Just don't want it to get kinked or something shipping it any ideas?

thanks for the offer!..that is awesome,where abouts are you exactly?....im considering having Dave wrench my sled,since i need head trued anyway.....how far are you from prescott?....

if you arent too far...you could send it to him and Ill slip you some bucks for it all and make it worth your while....is the shim not metal?...i thought it was?

Dan

 

[ROCKERDAN]

stage 1 is c15-30
stage 2 is c30-74

thanks....but i guess what im wondering more is,can you tell me the differences between blowers on stage 1 and stage 2?

are they physically bigger or smaller?.....just trying to wrap my head around the stage 2 and what it is all about.

Dan

 

[kinger]

Yep I followed the simmons kit for a year or so and bluebyyou was the only one getting some miles and then his eventually needed some header work, heat tape etc. I think he still loved it but the SC once set up your done. Its also good for me that I cant adjust boost, keeps me from tinkering! I just want to ride this year and the SC was the one I found with no issues once set up on a apex.

I am going to possibly make a rear rack that looks cool and will hold a 3-5 gallon gas can if I find I am having trouble getting between stops. I think steady throttle will be the key not my current ON/OFF style I like now.

Good decison man have fun!!!