Ski-Dooin' it
Expert
Well.. ill start it off with what has happened before, The sled worked fine last season, started when you hit they key, vroom. then in cooke city during january, the sled just STOPPED starting. the key did nothing for starting, BUT, if you unplug the key harness, and short out the keyed on power, or the main power to the starter wire, it would run the starter. either which way, It then randomly would start later in the day and work fine, I thought it was freezing overnight and not working or something stupid like that. either way. I had gotten a new key assembly when I got back from cooke and it started working perfect and normal again.
fast forward to today. the sled has been starting no propblem in my testing projects lately, even started this morning. went out this afternoon to start it... NOTHING!!! the key on position provides power(i have a solenoid triggered off it, so I can hear it clicking) but the starter does nothing, I can unplug the key assembly again and jump power to the starter wire, and crank away it does, but the ignition isnt powered, so it wont start. My real confusion lies in the fact that I tested the key assembly per the service manual, and it works, problem with that is, if you jump wires on the harness the way that they key should do, it wont make the starter run... The test method doesnt make the sled run if you hard wire it up the same way.
I know a new key assembly would fix the thing, but for 2 key assemblies to go bad in 10 months, thats just weird, and it tests out working properly, but it wont click the starter.
fast forward to today. the sled has been starting no propblem in my testing projects lately, even started this morning. went out this afternoon to start it... NOTHING!!! the key on position provides power(i have a solenoid triggered off it, so I can hear it clicking) but the starter does nothing, I can unplug the key assembly again and jump power to the starter wire, and crank away it does, but the ignition isnt powered, so it wont start. My real confusion lies in the fact that I tested the key assembly per the service manual, and it works, problem with that is, if you jump wires on the harness the way that they key should do, it wont make the starter run... The test method doesnt make the sled run if you hard wire it up the same way.
I know a new key assembly would fix the thing, but for 2 key assemblies to go bad in 10 months, thats just weird, and it tests out working properly, but it wont click the starter.
Paradox
Newbie
I'm not an expert by any means, but I've had an issue with mine somewhat along the same lines that I just figured out. This one makes me feel a bit stupid but here it goes.
Just purchased a sled. I was having intermittant starting problems while doing maintenance on it and every once in a while I would turn the key and just get the starter relay "Click" sound, I would fittle with the wires and tap the relay and get it to start. Went to start it today and "Click" But this time no matter what I did I couldn't get it to turn over. So, I bypassed the relay and the starter engaged, thought to myself...bad relay. Then I was told don't jump to conclusions and check the voltage of the battery with a meter (After all the relay is $60). I laughed (inside laugh) because after all I bypassed the relay and it worked right? I did it anyway....8.5 volt reading! Hooked up a trickle charger with 2amps and you guessed it...it started.
Honestly I'm still a bit confused. The conclusion for me is the relay may take just a little more juice to activate it then what it takes the starter to engage, even if you here the click that doesn't mean it's working. Either way 8.5 volts at the battery would appear to be the route cause. My expierence is low voltage can do funny things if you don't fully understand every componant in the system...start with the obvious and eliminate it FIRST....are you putting out 12 volts right at the battery without it running? Do the test after it's been sitting, if it's dropping a charge or can't hold a charge you don't want to test it right after running it as the sled system just got done putting a juice shot into it. Load test on the battery might be in order and they will do them free at most places like Battery plus stores.
Just my two cents worth....really don't know all the details of your situation but thought I'd throw my two cents in...
Hopefully someone with far more electrical knowledge can pipe in here...
Good Luck
Just purchased a sled. I was having intermittant starting problems while doing maintenance on it and every once in a while I would turn the key and just get the starter relay "Click" sound, I would fittle with the wires and tap the relay and get it to start. Went to start it today and "Click" But this time no matter what I did I couldn't get it to turn over. So, I bypassed the relay and the starter engaged, thought to myself...bad relay. Then I was told don't jump to conclusions and check the voltage of the battery with a meter (After all the relay is $60). I laughed (inside laugh) because after all I bypassed the relay and it worked right? I did it anyway....8.5 volt reading! Hooked up a trickle charger with 2amps and you guessed it...it started.
Honestly I'm still a bit confused. The conclusion for me is the relay may take just a little more juice to activate it then what it takes the starter to engage, even if you here the click that doesn't mean it's working. Either way 8.5 volts at the battery would appear to be the route cause. My expierence is low voltage can do funny things if you don't fully understand every componant in the system...start with the obvious and eliminate it FIRST....are you putting out 12 volts right at the battery without it running? Do the test after it's been sitting, if it's dropping a charge or can't hold a charge you don't want to test it right after running it as the sled system just got done putting a juice shot into it. Load test on the battery might be in order and they will do them free at most places like Battery plus stores.
Just my two cents worth....really don't know all the details of your situation but thought I'd throw my two cents in...
Hopefully someone with far more electrical knowledge can pipe in here...
Good Luck
Ski-Dooin' it
Expert
I have been doing a LOT of cranking on the thing since I put the sled together with the battery, it has been ran dead quite a few times. might be time for a new one anyways. but I had it cranking to almost a dead stop just yesterday, so the thing still started with the battery almost totally killed, and I have had the trickle charger on it at ALL times.
my issue is, the starter relay DOESNT click, I need to do some more testing on it to confirm things, but im gonna check power into the starter relay to confirm issues upstream, etc etc. I put a jumper switch on the key assembly to send power to the starter relay wire, it will turn over plenty fast and all, but it wont fire.. which might be me fighting my propane system. just wont even pop over, exhaust smells like propane, so its getting it, but not turning on the ignition.. argh.
It just doesnt make sense to me as its been sitting in a warm garage, started it at like 11am.. then it wouldnt work around 3... thing wasnt even fully cold yet. not like a key assembly is something that just goes bad.. oh well I guess.
my issue is, the starter relay DOESNT click, I need to do some more testing on it to confirm things, but im gonna check power into the starter relay to confirm issues upstream, etc etc. I put a jumper switch on the key assembly to send power to the starter relay wire, it will turn over plenty fast and all, but it wont fire.. which might be me fighting my propane system. just wont even pop over, exhaust smells like propane, so its getting it, but not turning on the ignition.. argh.
It just doesnt make sense to me as its been sitting in a warm garage, started it at like 11am.. then it wouldnt work around 3... thing wasnt even fully cold yet. not like a key assembly is something that just goes bad.. oh well I guess.
Ski-Dooin' it
Expert
more info... so I just went out and played more.. but to no avail.
there are 3 wires heading into the starter relay.. a big red guy, a blue one, and red/white. the red white goes from the back of the switch assembly. and when power is put to the red/white at the key housing, the starter runs. in the manual, the tests show that the red/white is getting connected to a brown/white.. the brown white is a non powered wire when tested, meaning NOTHING is sending power to the starter relay.
if somebody with a multimeter would be nice enough to run a test for me that would be AWSOME... preferable on a running sled.
pull key assembly out from cowling, pull back the rubber exposing the soldered wire ends for testing.
tests
key off-
which wires have power
key on-which have power
ign-which wires have power.
there are 3 wires heading into the starter relay.. a big red guy, a blue one, and red/white. the red white goes from the back of the switch assembly. and when power is put to the red/white at the key housing, the starter runs. in the manual, the tests show that the red/white is getting connected to a brown/white.. the brown white is a non powered wire when tested, meaning NOTHING is sending power to the starter relay.
if somebody with a multimeter would be nice enough to run a test for me that would be AWSOME... preferable on a running sled.
pull key assembly out from cowling, pull back the rubber exposing the soldered wire ends for testing.
tests
key off-
which wires have power
key on-which have power
ign-which wires have power.
